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Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
2017-08-24, 13:49
Post: #31
RE: Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
I can never remember what does what. Options seem to be, repeat all forever, repeat all just the once, repeat currently playing just the once. I think the DS can only repeat all forever.

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2017-08-24, 15:30
Post: #32
RE: Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
(2017-08-24 13:43)sunshine Wrote:  
(2017-08-24 13:35)timster Wrote:  Do any others (like Naim for eg) have a random play of all the library? I know my little Denon doesn't.
No, they don't (at least not that I am aware of). But still, it is a feature which would suit me well. It makes me listen to new songs...

There is a hard playlist maximum of (IIRC) 1000 tracks in a Linn DS/DSM. As I understand it, this is much a hardware as a software limitation.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-08-24, 15:49
Post: #33
RE: Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
(2017-08-24 15:30)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-08-24 13:43)sunshine Wrote:  
(2017-08-24 13:35)timster Wrote:  Do any others (like Naim for eg) have a random play of all the library? I know my little Denon doesn't.
No, they don't (at least not that I am aware of). But still, it is a feature which would suit me well. It makes me listen to new songs...

There is a hard playlist maximum of (IIRC) 1000 tracks in a Linn DS/DSM. As I understand it, this is much a hardware as a software limitation.

David

Yes, 1000.

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
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2017-08-24, 17:25 (This post was last modified: 2017-08-24 17:37 by billzab.)
Post: #34
RE: Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
(2017-08-24 00:13)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-08-23 22:33)billzab Wrote:  For a non-technophobe user (like my wife) this was a dawdle.

I think you mean just "technophobe", and probably also "doddle", Bill, and, if you do, I agree with you.

Neither of my daughters is technophobic in the usual sense of the word, and both are highly computer literate. But both prefer to keep paper diaries. And, while they are both happy to look at and listen to locally stored media on their phones, tablets and computers, only one will access the music on my system via a control point. People are picking and choosing which new technology they will access and which they will leave alone. So sunshine likes streaming, but he wants to work it, as nearly as possible, in the way he would work a CD player. Bill's wife is prepared to press four buttons on a remote to hear the music she likes, but that (or not much more than that) is all the complexity she will put up with. They have a point.

I love having the choice of my whole collection on a streaming system, but it is all to clear to me that many people are reluctant to make the jump into streaming, for all sorts of different reasons. Indeed, until four years ago I was one of those people.

This is why 'bridge' applications like Jukebox are so important. Linn can market all the Fabrik they want, but if the missus can't get on with using an iThingy, that new DSM gets only the financial and domestic priority given to the rest of 'his stuff'. If, in the new world vision of the Linn House, streaming music systems are for sharing and listening together, Linn (like most other manufacturers) needs to provide a sharing-oriented application. They would probably laugh at me for saying this, but making streaming more accessible to a wider range of people is actually more important for their future business than Katalyst. So there.

David

Thanks for the corrections David, it was late at night and I should have proof read my text before posting.

I agree with your comments and I think that making the whole streaming experience easy should be Linns (and other manufacturers) priority. If your daughters could Bluetooth from their mobile phones to your system, they would no doubt use it a lot more. Some people prefer simple over sound quality. While I as the owner and purchaser of my system want the best sound I can get, other users in the house, only want it to play their music.

Imagine going in to Currys and being told that your new TV comes with a remote control, but in order to get a TV channel on screen, you need an app for your phone or iPad. This is what Linn are basically saying when they sell you a DS. I don't really see the point of them even supplying a remote control for a DS.


Bill.

(2017-08-24 06:30)timster Wrote:  
(2017-08-23 22:33)billzab Wrote:  
(2017-08-23 11:48)timster Wrote:  I have a Denon which is very clunky to browse using the remote. But then again so was Jukebox. They said the replacement will be better, when they get round to it.

I disagree Timster that Jukebox was clunky. To play album 40 on your list, you tapped 040 into the remote and pressed play. 4 button presses of the remote and music played. For a non-technophobe user (like my wife) this was a dawdle. Jukebox gave you the ability to produce a superb looking booklet with album art that was a pleasure to browse through. Almost an analogue feel. It was also far more impressive to people new to streaming than showing them an iPhone app. OK, this was about 7 years ago when streaming was new, but I still feel it would have its place today. Let's face it Kinsky hasn't really impressed and almost every third party control point beats it by a country mile. I myself use Lumin.

Bill.

Less clunky than the Denon in the interface for sure. I agree that the direct access with the index number was quite brilliant.
But building the directory was quite clunky. I did find after a time that adding new albums got a bit messy as they had to be appended to the directory or needed a complete reprint of the booklet each time. So I ended up manually inserting them alphabetically in the Artist index and browsing instead.
For me though, the main drawback was that I couldn't get it to work directly from my NAS. It had to be routed through my PC. I hope the new incarnation won't need that.

You are of course quite right Timster, Jukebox needed somebody computer savvy to set it all up and maintaining it was a pain, especially when adding new music. Mine did work fine from my NAS, bit like you, I hope any new incarnation of Jukebox is easier to set up and maintain.

Bill.

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2017-08-25, 07:09
Post: #35
RE: Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
It's not quite what you're asking for but you can get a near CD like experience using a control point. Unlike many here I don't use playlists. I have all my music ripped and in one folder per album. These folders are then nested in folders by artist. To play music I use BubbleDS on an android phone - simply go to the library tab select 'music' select 'by folder' and scan through the artists till I find one I want, select that, then choose the album (if more than one) and press play. More or less the same as going to the shelf looking through the LP's deciding on artist and then album. You could get it even simpler by not nesting albums by artist. You'd then just get a list of all your albums. I tend to use the remote for everything else, source selection, volume, pause etc.

This does mean two devices rather than one but hardly the end of the world.

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2017-08-25, 09:23
Post: #36
RE: Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
(2017-08-25 07:09)Mark57 Wrote:  It's not quite what you're asking for but you can get a near CD like experience using a control point. Unlike many here I don't use playlists. I have all my music ripped and in one folder per album. These folders are then nested in folders by artist. To play music I use BubbleDS on an android phone - simply go to the library tab select 'music' select 'by folder' and scan through the artists till I find one I want, select that, then choose the album (if more than one) and press play. More or less the same as going to the shelf looking through the LP's deciding on artist and then album. You could get it even simpler by not nesting albums by artist. You'd then just get a list of all your albums. I tend to use the remote for everything else, source selection, volume, pause etc.

This does mean two devices rather than one but hardly the end of the world.

Mark57, it is not the end of the world, not even close. But when I spend that kind of money I want a device that suits my needs. Unfortunately, it seems that the streaming user interface of the DSMs is lacking what I need. The problem is that I don't know any alternatives to the MDSM/3 (Space Optimisation, Exakt capabilities, HDMI, all-in-one). So maybe I have to wait and stick to Naim for the time being.
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2017-08-25, 09:56
Post: #37
RE: Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
(2017-08-25 09:23)sunshine Wrote:  
(2017-08-25 07:09)Mark57 Wrote:  It's not quite what you're asking for but you can get a near CD like experience using a control point. Unlike many here I don't use playlists. I have all my music ripped and in one folder per album. These folders are then nested in folders by artist. To play music I use BubbleDS on an android phone - simply go to the library tab select 'music' select 'by folder' and scan through the artists till I find one I want, select that, then choose the album (if more than one) and press play. More or less the same as going to the shelf looking through the LP's deciding on artist and then album. You could get it even simpler by not nesting albums by artist. You'd then just get a list of all your albums. I tend to use the remote for everything else, source selection, volume, pause etc.

This does mean two devices rather than one but hardly the end of the world.

Mark57, it is not the end of the world, not even close. But when I spend that kind of money I want a device that suits my needs. Unfortunately, it seems that the streaming user interface of the DSMs is lacking what I need. The problem is that I don't know any alternatives to the MDSM/3 (Space Optimisation, Exakt capabilities, HDMI, all-in-one). So maybe I have to wait and stick to Naim for the time being.

sunshine, another alternative is to stick with Davaar 37 and get used to Jukebox, until such a time as it's replacement arrives. Davaar 50 was a rewrite and is needed for Exakt or Katalyst systems, but for standard use such as yours. you'll still get the SO and I'm pretty sure it has no effect on HDMI.

How about downloading Jukebox and install it, create a database, and if you could live with that, try Davaar 37 on your MDSM/2 and see if it would be good enough a stop gap?

If not, you can do what you say, but no harm in trying?

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2017-08-25, 11:55
Post: #38
RE: Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
(2017-08-25 09:56)timster Wrote:  ... another alternative is to stick with Davaar 37 and get used to Jukebox, until such a time as it's replacement arrives.

Wouldn't it be even easier for sunshine just to get used to whatever control point he prefers? We now know that the move from Davaar 37 to Davaar 50+ was a pretty big jump in various ways, and I'm not sure that it makes sense to advise a new user to lock himself into outmoded software for an indeterminate period, especially as Jukebox doesn't do what he really wants, which is to browse his whole library using just the remote and the DS display.

I feel sympathetic towards sunshine, because he is faced with a choice he didn't want to make. Curiously enough, I was faced with a similar choice when I got into streaming, though in my case it led me to choose Linn rather than Naim (which was my original preference). At the time, Naim did not have an Android app, and I didn't want to be forced into adopting iOS just for the music system.

Looking back on that decision (and reflecting that I have ended up with a music system I really like as much by accident as by conscious choice), my advice to sunshine remains that, if he prefers the sound of the Linn system, he will probably get more enjoyment in the end by learning to live with its ergonomics. That should not, however, be read as going back on my mini-rant a few posts back about the need for Linn and other manufacturers to make the transition into streaming easier for more people.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-08-25, 12:09
Post: #39
RE: Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
(2017-08-25 11:55)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-08-25 09:56)timster Wrote:  ... another alternative is to stick with Davaar 37 and get used to Jukebox, until such a time as it's replacement arrives.

Wouldn't it be even easier for sunshine just to get used to whatever control point he prefers? We now know that the move from Davaar 37 to Davaar 50+ was a pretty big jump in various ways, and I'm not sure that it makes sense to advise a new user to lock himself into outmoded software for an indeterminate period, especially as Jukebox doesn't do what he really wants, which is to browse his whole library using just the remote and the DS display.

I feel sympathetic towards sunshine, because he is faced with a choice he didn't want to make. Curiously enough, I was faced with a similar choice when I got into streaming, though in my case it led me to choose Linn rather than Naim (which was my original preference). At the time, Naim did not have an Android app, and I didn't want to be forced into adopting iOS just for the music system.

Looking back on that decision (and reflecting that I have ended up with a music system I really like as much by accident as by conscious choice), my advice to sunshine remains that, if he prefers the sound of the Linn system, he will probably get more enjoyment in the end by learning to live with its ergonomics. That should not, however, be read as going back on my mini-rant a few posts back about the need for Linn and other manufacturers to make the transition into streaming easier for more people.

David

I was working on the assumption that the new Jukebox will work in a similar way to the old one. Big assumption I know, but we also know it's unlikely to be much different in how it'll work even if it will do it better, and that it's unlikely to be an inbuilt uPnP control point such as Naim etc. has. So it could be that if he can't get on with the old Jukebox he probably won't get on with the new one and the importance of the navigation will be the decider in any event.

But, if he can live with it, then the decision should be easier to stay with Linn. And he can decide how to live out the time until the new incarnation arrives - stick with it on old firmware for the navigation, or manage without remote navigation in the reasonably confident knowledge that it will eventually provide it.

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2017-08-25, 15:06
Post: #40
RE: Browsing the audio library using only the DSM's display and remote?
On another note re: randomising. I happen to have Asset from when I used my laptop as my source, before buying the synology. I have to admit I regret not buying QNAP, because I could then use it. But I do happen to have a secondary copy of my music library on an external drive, so I have resurrected Asset to run from it. The Dynamic Playlist feature (confusing called Jukebox Tracks and Jukebox Albums) is quite brilliant. I've been listening to some really old stuff and some I've not heard in years.
I wonder if simon @ Minim would ever consider something similar?

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
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