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A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
2017-09-01, 09:47
Post: #31
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
Hi Tin, if you look at torque wrenches, they do tend to be too big and brutal for the job. Look for a torque screwdriver, they are usually in the torque range needed here.

ADSM/1 -> ATC SCM19A's
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2017-09-01, 09:58
Post: #32
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
(2017-09-01 09:47)Music at Home Wrote:  Hi Tin, if you look at torque wrenches, they do tend to be too big and brutal for the job. Look for a torque screwdriver, they are usually in the torque range needed here.
I know, eventually I found those too, but I found them too expensive for the limited use that I have for them.

I just wanted to make clear that 1Nm is a very small amount of force compared to what we use each day.

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2017-09-01, 11:53
Post: #33
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
(2017-09-01 07:04)Tin Wrote:  
(2017-08-31 22:08)MetalloIL6 Wrote:  David & Chris,

Ok then, no torquing by myself unless the bolt is found spinning!

Looking forward to next chapters,

MI
And if you do, 1Nm is really almost nothing.

I have been looking for a torquewrench a year ago, but most normal ones only start at 10Nm and have a uncertaintity of one or 2Nm.
So, 'unless spinning' is exactly what I am doing too, if you go past 'gently' you'll be using way too much force.

Just as an example: if you are about 80kg and would do a single pushup, you will be moving about 50kg = 500N over 50cm = 0.5m, so that is 250Nm.
So you need to apply 1/250 of force compared to what a human can do without to much practise. 1Nm is really not much.
Thanks Tin. Clearly we must leave this to professionals, if one is lucky enough to have them available.

MI
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2017-09-01, 11:55 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-01 11:58 by DavidHB.)
Post: #34
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
(2017-09-01 09:58)Tin Wrote:  ... I found those too, but I found them too expensive for the limited use that I have for them.

That was my point too.

But back to the story. I've briefly escaped from a house full of family to write this. Today's instalment is running a bit late ...

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-01, 12:20
Post: #35
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
A year ago or so I bought a 'SEALEY Torque Screwdriver Digital 0.05-5Nm 1/4"Hex Drive'. This one I found reasonably priced at around 40 GBP, and in my opinion it is accurate and robust enough for home/DIY use. You set a target torque and the unit starts beeping&vibrating when that is reached- a nice feature since it is difficult to read a small display when operating.

AEDSM, Akurate Exaktbox, 2*A4200/D, C2200/D, Akubariks
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2017-09-01, 16:46
Post: #36
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
David, the suspense is killing us!

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2017-09-01, 16:57
Post: #37
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
(2017-09-01 12:20)Macallan Wrote:  A year ago or so I bought a 'SEALEY Torque Screwdriver Digital 0.05-5Nm 1/4"Hex Drive'. This one I found reasonably priced at around 40 GBP, and in my opinion it is accurate and robust enough for home/DIY use. You set a target torque and the unit starts beeping&vibrating when that is reached- a nice feature since it is difficult to read a small display when operating.

Thanks for this - for UK residents it's currently £46.99 on Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-STS103-S...B00NQCA1EE

Unidisk SC | Majik LP12 | Trampolin 2 | Lingo 3.
Akurate DSM/2 | Akurate Exaktbox 10 | 2 x Akurate 4200/1 | Exakt dual-mono Keilidhs
Raspberry Pi 2 Model B | IQAudio Pi-DAC+ | Audiolab 8000A | AR28s.
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2017-09-01, 19:24
Post: #38
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
(2017-09-01 16:46)Tin Wrote:  David, the suspense is killing us!

Sorry, Tin. Im writing the next instalment. But it's not about sub-woofers ...

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-01, 19:57
Post: #39
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
(2017-09-01 19:24)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-09-01 16:46)Tin Wrote:  David, the suspense is killing us!

Sorry, Tin. Im writing the next instalment. But it's not about sub-woofers ...

David
You'll be surprised to know I care about the rest too.
Besides, the faster you get those irrelevant subjects out of the way, the sooner you get to the important stuff. Big Grin

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2017-09-01, 20:59 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-02 00:46 by DavidHB.)
Post: #40
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
This third instalment of the account of the tweak and test session a couple of days ago is in many ways the centre point of the story. My key purpose in setting the session up was to have Chris of Hidden Systems spend some time ensuring that it was giving me best value, that is enabling me to listen in the way I found most enjoyable, and in particular to listen to the music and not to the hi-fi. There was no presumption that the process would make the system sound better (whatever 'better' might mean); even the assurance that things were as reasonably well set up as they could be would be a good outcome.

Step one was the torquing process, already described, and (in my wiew) more a sensible bit of SOP contributing to the well-being of the whole system than a key driver (pun intended) of sound quality. There's no more to be said about that.

Step two was a bit of a surprise. Chris opened up Konfig and, rather than the Space Optimisation page, went to the Device settings. As previously noted, he found that HDMI was switched off (something that I found marginally improved sound quality when I first bought the ADSM four years ago). He then changed 'Digital Output Mode' from the default 'RAW' to 'Disabled'. The Help text for this setting says, "Select Disabled if you are not using the digital output." It does not say, "If you are not using the digital output, disabling it will give you a small but noticeable improvement in sound quality", but it should. Gonzo and I immediately heard an improvement in the quality and clarity of the sound picture. Not massive, but not insignificant either, and well worth having for nothing. Also a good start to the tweaking process.

With the Device settings reviewed, the fun began on Step three, Space Optimisation. I had been running with the latest beta firmware and the settings as calculated. I found the sound very enjoyable, but was conscious that on some tracks the system could usefully give me a bit more weight at the lower end of the frequency spectrum. Experience with sub-woofers has taught me that, if the bass is not quite right, something else is probably not right as well. Putting in a sub-woofer was an obvious course to try for someone who used a sub for over twenty years(and will be the subject of the next post) It was equally obvious that the Space settings needed to be reviewed first.

'Reviewed' is not really the word. After Chris's initial listen, he had made the Delphic pronouncement that "we can do something" with the settings. As calculated, there were seven room mode filters. Chis left the lowest two alone, zeroed out the upper five, and added two custom filters. He told us that he was using the values of these filters in the light of his discussions with Paulssurround. All in all, a pretty substantial set of changes.

The change in sound quality was even more remarkable. Gonzo, who has his own Katalyst 350 and 520 systems for comparison, may be better placed than I am to describe the difference, but I'll have a go. Before the changes, the system sounded clear, well-balanced, but perhaps just a touch too civilised (the lack of 'weight'). Afterwards the sound was further into the room, fuller and definitely weightier. We were playing a 1971 BBC recording of Janet Baker doing a full-voiced rendition of the 17th century anthem "Jehovah Reigns", with harpsichord and cello accompaniment. Before the changes, the cello was barely audible; afterwards, it was easy to follow the cello tune, even with the dominant mezzo voice singing above it. Likewise, the bass solo on Monty Alexander's "Night Mist Blues" was a whole new experience, and a joy to listen to.

While there was no doubt from the first few seconds of listening that I should keep this new optimisation, it became clear, once the day was done and I was listening on my own, that the changes would take some getting used to. My setup was, in effect, sounding like a different system, and it has taken me until today to be sure that I have no significant reservations about it. As is to be expected, I have found that some recordings benefit from the changes more than others, but I have yet to hear one that I actually liked better with the old settings. The extent of the change was one of the three big surprises of the day, and had a significant knock-on effect on all the experiments that came later.

This post is probably long enough for now. I hope I have explained the essentials of how the settings changed, and am happy to amplify particular points in response to questions. Chris and Gonzo may also want to chip in.

[To be continued]

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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