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Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
2017-10-02, 11:43 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-02 11:44 by MikeSpragg.)
Post: #31
RE: Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
(2017-10-02 11:41)sunbeamgls Wrote:  
(2017-10-02 11:36)MikeSpragg Wrote:  
(2017-10-01 05:07)Paulssurround Wrote:  Sorry Mike, but I have to disagree with your logic and explanations.

I am not a computer guy, but I know something about sound quality.

I have heard tremendous improvements in many Linn systems that have installed better quality Ethernet cables.

That's fine - you're entitled to your opinion as much as I am. But, I do know several things that might assist in changing your mind:

1) No-one has an explanation
2) Looking at the Linn factory, all their cabling is quite standard
3) Linn don't recommend it (and that's the manufacturer)
4) It doesn't make sense - other than noise of some form
5) No-one can prove anything
6) This is personal bias

So, we're left with two things - personal opinion/bias and (in the case of AQ) a lot of bluster.

End of subject for me, I really don't care !

Nope, you're left with the one thing that you're choosing to ignore due to some personal opinion/bias, just like most people Smile

How do you figure that:

2) Looking at the Linn factory, all their cabling is quite standard
3) Linn don't recommend it (and that's the manufacturer)

?? If they don't recommend it then, if nothing else, it just backs up my opinion. I wouldn't go as far as that though - but it's certainly better than betting on a hope & whim. And as for the argument "well, they must be wrong then"... hmm ....

Regards, Mike
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2017-10-02, 12:12 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-02 12:14 by dubselect.)
Post: #32
RE: Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
What kind of "noise" are we talking about in case of Ethernet cables? EMI?

I have a pair of AQ Vodka Ethernet cables. They DID make my system sound better. But NOW they don't. Wink

I think the problem was that the resoltion of my system was not good enough to clearly hear if there were any difference between Vodka and standart CAT5e cables. So I thought there was a difference.

But later (after I equipped my system with many valuable accessories) I did an extensive A/B comparison and came to conclusion that there is absolutely no difference between CAT5e and Vodka. I think at that time the resolution of my system was much better (actually - a lot better than it was before) so I was capable to hear much more micro-details. And I was surprised that I did not hear any improvements I "heard" before.

In my experience, in case of network, the only thing that influence the soundquality is connectors. Believe me or not but there is a distinct difference between just-connected Ethernet cable and connected-for-more-than-a-week. And it doesn't matter what cable it is - standart CAT5e or Vodka.
Same thing is true for all other connectors in my system - XLRs and power plugs.

So if I change/reconnect any cable, that was installed (connected) in the system for more than a week, I can clearly hear a difference.

Interestingly, if I reconnect any interconnect or power cable I can hear a definite improvement in dynamics, but when I reconnect Ethernet cable I hear mostly coloration, which I can't call improvement.

P. S. I think I just opened even bigger can of worms, than Wiltshireman did before. Big Grin

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2017-10-02, 13:31 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-02 13:33 by DavidHB.)
Post: #33
RE: Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
(2017-10-02 12:12)dubselect Wrote:  What kind of "noise" are we talking about in case of Ethernet cables? EMI?

Potentially, I think, any kind of electrical noise. With all that fast switching, networks are, in electrical terms, noisy environments. Then there is whatever noise is induced into the cable from external sources. The removal and/or suppression of all this noise is likely to require a number of different measures, system-wide. Cables may provide part of the solution, but should not be considered separately from the rest of the system.

(2017-10-02 12:12)dubselect Wrote:  I have a pair of AQ Vodka Ethernet cables. They DID make my system sound better. But NOW they don't. Wink ...
I think the problem was that the resolution of my system was not good enough to clearly hear if there were any difference between Vodka and standard CAT5e cables. So I thought there was a difference.

But later (after I equipped my system with many valuable accessories) I did an extensive A/B comparison and came to conclusion that there is absolutely no difference between CAT5e and Vodka.

The alternative explanation (and I have no idea whether either is correct) is that, by changing components in your system, you changed the context, such that the noise suppression (or whatever) provided by the Vodka cables was no longer required, because the new components were able to suppress the noise themselves. In that case, there is a difference between the cables, but the difference is not always significant.

The point here is not that either of these explanations is right or wrong, but that our knowledge is so meagre. We need to be open to the possibility that things are happening that we don't fully understand. So we should not go overboard and make assertions (on either side of the argument) that the current state of knowledge does not justify.

(2017-10-02 12:12)dubselect Wrote:  In my experience, in case of network, the only thing that influence the sound quality is connectors.

Fred Lejonklou would completely agree with you! IIRC, he says, in relation to all signal leads, that the connector (and the associated soldering or other joining technique) has more effect on sound quality than the cable itself. It has, I think, long been argued that breaking and re-making a connection can have an effect on sound quality. I find that assertion quite plausible, though I don't know to what extent it has actually been proven.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-10-02, 14:48 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-02 14:51 by Wat.)
Post: #34
RE: Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
How do cables supress noise?

AFAIK Ethernet cables have galvanic isolation (transormer coupling) inherent in their design specification so should surpress noise by default. It’s plausible boutique streaming cables do not supress noise & some listeners prefer this injection of noise in to their systems. Pioneer had a Legato Link system in early days of CD replay that injected noise in to the chain to give a better subjective presentation of music.

Personally I prefer standard well-made on-specification Ethernet cables, but I also prefer Bushmills to Vodka, so it is probably a matter of taste. What sounds best is always subjective.

I’m curious though why folk don’t use Linn supplied or standard well made digital & analogue cables throughout & apply Space Optimisation to tune a system to their liking rather than pay a small fortune for weird & wonderful cables.

FWIW I totally agree about the quality of connectors & soldering is very important.

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2017-10-02, 14:54
Post: #35
RE: Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
(2017-10-02 14:48)Wat Wrote:  How do cables supress noise?

AFAIK Ethernet cables have galvanic isolation (transormer coupling) inherent in their design specification so should surpress noise by default.

Which was what the link to the TI report says. It's also the summary application note for FCC certification.

Regards, Mike
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2017-10-02, 16:02
Post: #36
RE: Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
(2017-10-02 11:41)sunbeamgls Wrote:  
(2017-10-02 11:36)MikeSpragg Wrote:  
(2017-10-01 05:07)Paulssurround Wrote:  

The marketing message is often different to the reality - Exakt DSMs not sounding different is one example of where the message is different to the reality.

I can tell you the marketing message.

When I see the Linn picture ads for their speakers and Linn systems, there are no mains cords, ethernet cables or interconnects.

Apparently the best place to place the speakers is up against the wall?

Clearly, no cables are required? Tongue

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2017-10-02, 16:39
Post: #37
RE: Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
(2017-10-02 14:48)Wat Wrote:  How do cables suppress noise?

Depends what you mean by 'suppress', but the twisted pair arrangement of wires in an Ethernet cable is for EMI cancellation. The characteristics of the twist are important for this functionality, so you can (and presumably do) have cables that are better made than others. Likewise, some cables will be more resistant than others to the induction of spurious voltages from other nearby cabling.

Incidentally my previous post was carefully worded to avoid any suggestion that I understand why network and other digital signal cables might have an ultimate effect on sound quality in the analogue domain. I simply note the reports from many observers that this occurs.

(2017-10-02 14:48)Wat Wrote:  I’m curious though why folk don’t use Linn supplied or standard well made digital & analogue cables throughout & apply Space Optimisation to tune a system to their liking rather than pay a small fortune for weird & wonderful cables.

Linn do not separately supply digital cables or connectors in the way that they supply analogue signal and speaker cables. I fear that some people are taken in my the (mostly meaningless) marketing hype associated with some of these products, and have a vague feeling that what is true of analogue signal cables must be true of digital cables also. As my signature indicates, I am prepared to pay for good quality analogue cables from Linn. Where digital leads are concerned, I like to use something that is decently constructed, but I see no reason to pay the silly money that is charged for some products

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-10-02, 19:12 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-02 22:50 by Wiltshireman.)
Post: #38
RE: Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
(2017-10-01 07:05)timster Wrote:  I don't think Wiltshireman quite realised the can of worms he was opening...
Smile
What fun.

I certainly didn't Tim and since I posted I have been away and only just sat down for a read and catchup. As you know I am not very technically minded but I do know when something has changed in my system and more importantly when something sounds better whatever area the improvement is. I am a retired brass player who was once semi professional and the brass band I once played with is in the top 40 brass bands of the world so I must have some high level of ability in my musicianship. I like to think that I have a very trained ear and know what sounds better even if I don't know why.

A cable change is a very quick and very reversible thing to do so a swap back to how things were makes A/B listening a very easy thing to do. I don't understand why these cables cant be run in with use as an electric signal is running through them and surely this will burn them in even if its not of huge voltage and takes a long time. I will be leaving them in for a few weeks and then I will swap them back over to my old ones and then I will asses any changes/improvements. My initial thoughts were a deeper louder bass and more space around instruments and a general sense of ease in my sound but only time will tell if I think the same when I A/B. At this point in time if there are no further improvements I will still think the small outlay of £90 worth while even if its just for a top quality cable and connectors. I would also like to add that I have no connection with the Chord Cable Co other in that I too come from Wiltshire and I love what their cables allow my system to do. I only wish I could afford their top cables but sadly that will never happen, far too poor.

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2017-10-02, 19:23
Post: #39
RE: Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
(2017-10-02 14:48)Wat Wrote:  AFAIK Ethernet cables have galvanic isolation (transormer coupling) inherent in their design specification so should surpress noise by default.

Galvanic isolation just means there is no direct metal-to-metal conductive path. If something is galvanically isolated, it will block DC and low frequency currents but high frequency signals can still radiate and be coupled from one device to another. For example, a battery powered radio can still pick up interference from noisy devices even though it is galvanically isolated from them.

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2017-10-02, 19:23 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-02 19:25 by DavidHB.)
Post: #40
RE: Chord Cable Co Streaming Cable.
(2017-10-02 19:12)Wiltshireman Wrote:  My initial thoughts were a deeper louder bass and more space around instruments and a general sense of ease in my sound but only time will tell if I think the same when I A/B.

This is the kind of change I associate with a lowering of the noise floor. It seems that our hearing is extraordinarily sensitive to noise, even when we cannot perceive it as something separate and distinct. Assuming that the change is repeatable and real (ideally confirmed by several observers), it is important to recognise that it is not the cable on its own that has made the difference, but that cable working in that context in that system. Transferring your cable to someone else's system will not necessarily produce the same result.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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