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Streaming
2017-10-13, 21:21
Post: #21
RE: Streaming
(2017-10-13 16:13)CJ1045 Wrote:  
(2017-10-13 14:18)Tin Wrote:  
(2017-10-13 14:05)CJ1045 Wrote:  Sunbeamgls, it seems at least on this thread you are in the minority in preferrring the sound of the rips to Tidal.
I am not sure whether Kazoo does this but Roon does indicate what quality you are streming from Tidal and it has to be said that not all content is CD quality, some is MP3 or equivalent. Sometimes you do have to pick another version of an album to get the CD quality one. Perhaps this might explain the issue some people have with Tidal sound quality.

CJ
Timster prefers it as well as he stated above, and so do I.
I know Paulssurround got mildly frustrated when he tried to do his magic using a streaming service and couldn't figure out why he couldn't get it right.

I can understand that for you, as a trader, configuring a streaming service is preferable, and if I were a trader I'd probably do the same.

PS Watermarking has nothing to do with lossy versus losless.

Nothing to do with being a trader - just my personal view that Tidal is just as good as ripped music for me. I subscribe to Tidal and have not bought a CD for well over a year so I put my own money where my mouth is.

My view with regards to someone new to a DS is that they should really trial Tidal before looking at ripping hundreds of CDs and investing in other hardware. I suspect most people on here will not fall into this category as they will have ripped CDs, like me, for their DS long before Tidal or Qobuz were available rightly thinking the rips were better than Spotify or similar. I have 900 ripped CDs on our server. But if you are someone that has not ripped a single CD then I would suggest Tidal is a brilliant alternative especially as I think it sounds just as good.

CJ
Agree totally with CJ
I for one took all my CD’s to a charity shop (OK do have a back up if ever needed) but my only source of streaming is my PC or Tidal. Tidal is my preferred source.
Tidal is brilliant.

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2017-10-13, 22:05
Post: #22
RE: Streaming
(2017-10-13 14:05)CJ1045 Wrote:  Sunbeamgls, it seems at least on this thread you are in the minority in preferrring the sound of the rips to Tidal.
I am not sure whether Kazoo does this but Roon does indicate what quality you are streming from Tidal and it has to be said that not all content is CD quality, some is MP3 or equivalent. Sometimes you do have to pick another version of an album to get the CD quality one. Perhaps this might explain the issue some people have with Tidal sound quality.

CJ

Looks like its evolving as the thread develops. I have 2 friends with non-Linn systems (one NDS and lots of other black boxes from Salisbury), the other with an Innuos / Chord front end and they both prefer local rips to their Tidal subscriptions. Of course, they retain their Tidal subscriptions for listening to new stuff and casual listening.

That's why I said it is reasonable to have both, if that's what suits. Also I noted that my kids use Tidal exclusively and that's probably they way they will continue as they won't see the value in building a collection from scratch. I don't think I'm likely to ditch my local collection when there's a clear difference in quality and the need to have a place to store stuff I want to listen to but isn't available on Tidal.

I must try Qobuz sometime on the free trial - see if it fairs better than Tidal, but I suspect it is the labels that are watermarking, not the streaming companies so that issue will persist.

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2017-10-14, 05:03
Post: #23
RE: Streaming
I think my NAS and vinyl usually (not always) sound better than Tidal or Qobuz, but sometimes the difference is pretty small. Regardless, that isn’t the deciding factor for me. For me it’s about my passion for music: I have too many recordings that aren’t now, and probably never will be, available on either Tidal or Qobuz. So streaming can only be a supplement - a wonderful supplement, but not a replacement. I often read reviews of new recordings and can’t find them on either service, and often there are old recordings they don’t have, but even worse is when I find something I like - Tidal is the worst for this - only to find it’s no longer available a couple of months later. They’re great for casual, and even some serious listening, but how can a serious music lover who cares about favorite recordings rely solely on such a service?

1) Sonus Faber Amati Futura; Klimax Katalyst DSM; D’Agostino Momentum S250; Rega RP10 w/Aphelion & Linn Uphorik; Shunyata Denali, ICs, SCs & PCs
2) Luxman SQ-N100, PSB Imagine Mini, AR XA (refurbished), Klimax DSM Renew, Shunyata PS8, Nordost ICs & PCs, Acoustic Zen SCs
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2017-10-14, 22:53
Post: #24
RE: Streaming
(2017-10-13 10:45)gdp1965 Wrote:  Hi Linn folk.

Isn’t it time we embraced the future and did away with NAS drives and macs/pc’s as music servers?

Quite simply: No. I’ve no need to use the Internet to play music. I definitely do not want to pay again to hear music I’ve already paid to listen to: especially as very little money goes to the artist. So I’ll not be downgrading to Tidal. However, I’m lucky to have an extensive library of high quality music on my digital juke box. I don’t like companies profiling me. I will not be Tidaled, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered! My music collection is my own!

I’m glad to your enjoying the music, but it is not for me.

Digital Juke Box & KLP12 into KK/1D+KCT through SD9s
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2017-10-14, 23:19
Post: #25
RE: Streaming
(2017-10-13 14:05)CJ1045 Wrote:  Sunbeamgls, it seems at least on this thread you are in the minority in preferrring the sound of the rips to Tidal.
I am not sure whether Kazoo does this but Roon does indicate what quality you are streming from Tidal and it has to be said that not all content is CD quality, some is MP3 or equivalent. Sometimes you do have to pick another version of an album to get the CD quality one. Perhaps this might explain the issue some people have with Tidal sound quality.

CJ

Tidal has always sounded inferior to me. I certainly couldn’t be bothered with the faff of selecting from multiple versions. Moreover, as a consumer I react unfavourably in somebody trying to encourage me to jump in any particular direction. I appreciate being shown options, but if they come with unwanted promotion then I’m out.

Sound quality is subjective, but I’ve never heard any demo of Tidal or Roon that impressed me. I much prefer J River MC or Audirvana with local rips or high quality downloads. These packages concentrate on letting me listen to music rather read about it.

However, everybody needs to make up their own mind which suits them. I’m old & stuck in my ways.

Digital Juke Box & KLP12 into KK/1D+KCT through SD9s
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2017-10-16, 12:59
Post: #26
RE: Streaming
(2017-10-13 10:45)gdp1965 Wrote:  Hi Linn folk.

Isn’t it time we embraced the future and did away with NAS drives and macs/pc’s as music servers? I’ve signed up for Tidal and love it.

Absolutely!
I wait for Spotify Hifi to launch this year. Most cd's I want are not available to stream on Qobuz - they have a weird catalogue and anoying interface btw. Tidal was better and I hope I can throw my Nas away, if the sound with Spotify Hifi is good enough.

Regards,

Peter

Akurate DS > ExotikD > C2200D > Goldenear Triton two
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2017-10-16, 13:14
Post: #27
RE: Streaming
Embracing the future does not mean throwing the past away. Embrace them both, they work well together.

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2017-10-16, 15:23
Post: #28
RE: Streaming
Probably repeating what I have said elsewhere but....

I am a converted sceptic having started from a position of being one of life's natural collectors who never thought he would ever subscribe to streaming I was first a fully signed up member of Qobuz, then Sublime and now Sublime plus and it keeps getting better. I am very similar to Scooter I think and discovering this week's new sounds on Qobuz is a key part of my musical experience. Timster I gather is similar but on Tidal but we are working on him Big Grin Almost to the point that I probably only play NAS tunes for less than 10% of the time now and I am very selective with buying. Sublime increased the number of purchases, Sublime Plus has slowed my buying to a relative crawl.

I have mentioned before that when I first signed up I did a series of blind tests with anyone that daft enough to knock on the door and who was patient enough to join in (The postie respectfully declined Smile). Simple random on a combined playlist and then checking what was playing after the verdicts etc. I would say my own view was that back then there was a detectable difference for some albums when you do A vs B but I couldn't say it was 'meaningful' and it wasn't possible to call it without an A vs B. By that I mean that I couldn't listen to a single version of the tune and say - oh that's the Streamed version. Most people didn't really notice a difference.

I also discovered while doing this (it was ages ago now) that the problem with testing like this was the lack of certainty that I was listening to the same version of the album. The latter often making a much bigger difference than any difference between NAS and stream I think. There are so many different masterings and so on. But if you do it on a new release it works and I noticed that I found it much harder to detect a difference then and so....... I just stopped worrying about it.

I also think I have thankfully been shifting back towards just enjoying the music rather than trying to tweak it. For a while I think I as listening to the system more than the tune at times but hopefully over that now.

So streaming works for me. If I was a youthful 20 year old - the thought of subscribing to Sublime Plus for a lifetime might still freak me out a little. The trick is to avoid working out the lifetime costs.
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2017-10-16, 15:38
Post: #29
RE: Streaming
(2017-10-16 15:23)Martin H Wrote:  So streaming works for me. If I was a youthful 20 year old - the thought of subscribing to Sublime Plus for a lifetime might still freak me out a little. The trick is to avoid working out the lifetime costs.
Ditto Martin.
I too avoid thinking about the 'lifetime' costs of subscribing to streaming services, but compared to what I've spent in the last couple of years on buying high-res downloads from Qobuz, subscribing to Sublime+ is saving me a fortune!
To return to the subject the OP raised, rather than debate the SQ differences between streaming vs NAS, if I was 'starting from scratch', without a NAS-full of music, I wouldn't recommend purchasing downloads, and recommend streaming from Qobuz/Tidal exclusively.
It's just the 'oldies' like me who have both NAS music, and streaming to choose from.

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2017-10-16, 16:01
Post: #30
RE: Streaming
From reading other's points of view, it appears a lot of the NAS v Streaming argument is down to listening habits as much as anything else.

Streaming is absolutely brilliant for finding new stuff, hearing otherwise unknown and even unknowable artists, and the occasional surprising and serendipitous discovery (Hannah Epperson and the recent Prequell immediately spring to mind).

My problem, if it were to be characterised as such, with streaming as it currently exists is that it's absolutely rubbish for re-visiting old friends and browsing what you already know you like (or liked) because you made the effort and expense to buy it. The current block-favourites approach would mean eventually it would be just one huge unsorted and disorganised mass. Search is all well and good but you need to remember what it is you're searching for.

My question to those who have gone the streaming-only route then is this: how often do you/would you listen to an old album - even one you found since you started subscribing, perhaps only two years ago? How easy would it be for you to come across an old friend purely by chance on Tidal/Qobuz? How would one be able to create a randomised playlist from your favourites (as you can from your NAS in a number of ways) and then pick the whole album of one presented?

If the contents of my NAS could be replicated in the cloud in the same organised way, and I could have a server that would do what Minim and/or Asset currently do to it, and it alone - not anything else that exists - then I would stop buying downloads and put anything new into that NAS emulation up there in the ether. But that ain't going to happen is it?

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
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