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Upgrade advice please
2017-10-18, 17:38
Post: #21
RE: Upgrade advice please
I had a ADSM/0/1 before and i dare to says that
the MDSM/2 was better than the ADSM/0/1, this was due to the improved master clock, just my opinion..Wink

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2017-10-18, 18:28
Post: #22
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-18 17:15)mrco99 Wrote:  
(2017-10-18 12:53)billzab Wrote:  I should mention that I am the wrong side of 60 by a couple of years and this will probably be my last, decent size, upgrade. I will probably avoid going down the exact route and look to getting my 2250 dynamiked along with an ADSM. Hopefully a new one if I can stretch my budget a bit or failing that a second hand one. I would want he HDMI 2.0 so i have the latest connection for my TV. My current AkurateDS/0 does have Dynamik power supply so maybe I can get a bit more for it.

Really grateful for everyone's input, it's all very helpful.

Bill.

All Majik and Akurate DSMs produced by Linn as from the end of September 2016 have been factory equipped with the new HDMI 2.0 board.
You can check this from serialno. by sending an inquiry to the linn helpline.

With your ADS0 Dynamiked you may get about £1250 for it.

If it's your last step, do consider to take your Keilidhs active, it will make a significant difference. You can do so by acquiring an MDSM+2250 then you have the necessary channels. Or get an ADSM1 but then you need to exchange your 2250 to a 5125, 4100 or 4200 power amp in order to stick to a two-box setup with active Keilidhs.

Power amp options:
4200/D is among the best and most expensive, with s/h prices starting from £2K and upwards.
2250/D is comparable and for you only £600 given that you only need the dynamik upgrade - but it would require another one to go active with an ADSM. With an MDSM you have a stereo power amp inside that unit so have the required channels to go active as well.
5125.. without Dynamik imo not very special but a different beast when Dynamiked. You could easily exchange your 2250 to a 5125 with no money involved and then Dynamik the 5125 for the very same £600.
4100/D is about £1.2K s/h. Still good but the least of these options. Different sounding but 'perhaps' on a comparable level as 2250 with Dynamik.. (Oh dear, shouldn't have said that... Big Grin let the discussion begin)

You will also be needing actve cards for Keilidhs and these differ upon the amp they're being put in. When buying at a dealer he can help you - also with installing and converting your Keilidhs to active.

Linn gives you a free set of active cards for your speakers when you order a new power amplifier from their current range but perhaps you can arrange a similair deal with your dealer when buying a new MDSM (and Dynamiking your 2250). Do tell him you have a 2250 as you'll require an active adapter card for that type of amp.

With opting for an ADSM(1) you may well buy s/h but factor in the 2.0 HDMI upgrade board as an extra outlay - lots of s/h units on offer likely won't have it.
Exakt ports won't be a necessity as you won't use them but those that have (same counts for MDSM2) also have the best streamer onboard.

An older, only analogue ADSM costs about £2-2.5K. Add the 2.0 HDMI board and you're well on your way towards £3K.
I doubt if it is better than the newest MDSM with 5y warranty, also at £3K.

So let's suggest these systems to explore your options and give you something to ponder on;

#1
MDSM2 new with HDMI 2.0 at £3K
Passive: 2250 with Dynamik at £600
Active: exchange 2250 to 5125 with Dynamik at £600
(Free active cards for Keilidhs?)
Trade-in ADS0/D £1.0-£1.2K
Net cost £2.4-£2.6K

#2
Upgrade ADS0/D to ADSM2 (with HDMI 2.0?) at £3.4K
Passive: 2250 with Dynamik at £600
Active: exchange 2250 to 5125 with Dynamik at £600
(Free active cards for Keilidhs?)
No trade-in
Net cost £4K

#3
Buy s/h ADSM (analogue only) for £2.3K
2.0 HDMI upgrade board £600
Passive: 2250 with Dynamik at £600
Active: exchange 2250 to 5125 with Dynamik at £600
(Active cards for Keilidhs £400)
Trade-in ADS0/D £1.0-£1.2K
Net cost £2.5-£3.1K

I am almost certain more suggestions and discussions are going to follow Big Grin

Here goes for another option.....

For the DSM part I would suggest buy a s/h (you might get one unopened even) KRDSM for c. £3.6k (and sell your ADS0 so net cost = c. £2.5k) - I haven't heard the latest/current ADSM or MDSM versions but expect it would completely leave those behind.

Definitely take your Keilidh's aktiv and ensure you change the tweeters to the later Ninka (?) design which is a ~£100 dealer upgrade. Mine were transformed when I did made those changes and my only regret was not doing them years before. Can't comment on which power amps to use - I use a 6100 as a one box solution and a s/h one is inexpensive - it's not the best but an affordable interim measure at least if not long term (I'm 9 years into having mine as an interim measure!).
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2017-10-18, 18:32
Post: #23
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-18 17:38)Rudi64 Wrote:  I had a ADSM/0/1 before and i dare to says that the MDSM/2 was better than the ADSM/0/1, this was due to the improved master clock, just my opinion..Wink

I believe that the only difference between the ADSM/1 and ADSM/2 is the newer standard HDMI in the latter; AFAIK there is no sound quality difference.

I had my ADSM/0 (which, confusingly, is the counterpart of the ADS/1) upgraded to /1 standard, and, as Rudi says, there was a considerable improvement in sound quality. This was somewhat downplayed by Linn marketing, as they wanted to major on the addition of Exakt capability to the ADSM, and didn't want to trumpet its improved capability in passive systems.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-10-18, 18:47
Post: #24
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-18 18:28)Johnny_Thunders Wrote:  For the DSM part I would suggest buy a s/h (you might get one unopened even) KRDSM for c. £3.6k (and sell your ADS0 so net cost = c. £2.5k) - I haven't heard the latest/current ADSM or MDSM versions but expect it would completely leave those behind.

This might be a very good suggestion, but there are a couple of points to bear in mind.

Firstly, you need to be clear as to which KDSM board is in the KRDSM. If it is a KDSM/1, it will undoubtedly be superior sound-wise to any of the Akurate models, as it is essentially the same generation as the ADSM/1. Personally, I'd hold off on buying a KRDSM based on the original KDSM as a longer-term solution, as that technology is getting a bit long in the tooth.

The second point is the obvious one about the Renew models not being upgradeable, which makes them, in that sense, more rapidly depreciating assets.

Finally, as the reason for going from a DS to a DSM is better system integration and facilities, it is important to ensure that the KRDSM has everything you need in this respect, because it is not as well provided with inputs and outputs as the ADSM. The cost of that greatly improved sound quality is not just financial.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-10-18, 19:10 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-18 20:10 by mrco99.)
Post: #25
RE: Upgrade advice please
Indeed non-upgradeability of a Klimax Renew DSM can be a dealbreaker. I doubt any of those will have the 2.0 HDMI board inside - and if they do it must be a very recent KRDSM1 with Exakt ports that will be well over £3.6K.

Also you have to do without a screen, so it's only operational with a remote/iThing or such. No buttons on the device too, apart from a power switch.

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2017-10-18, 19:56
Post: #26
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-18 19:10)mrco99 Wrote:  Also you have to do without a screen, so it's only operational with a remote/iThing or such. No buttons on the device too, apart from a power switch.

Also true of the Klimax models themselves, of course. Apart from the screen, which is near unreadable unless you are very close to the device ...

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-10-18, 21:23 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-18 21:26 by Johnny_Thunders.)
Post: #27
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-18 18:47)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-10-18 18:28)Johnny_Thunders Wrote:  For the DSM part I would suggest buy a s/h (you might get one unopened even) KRDSM for c. £3.6k (and sell your ADS0 so net cost = c. £2.5k) - I haven't heard the latest/current ADSM or MDSM versions but expect it would completely leave those behind.

This might be a very good suggestion, but there are a couple of points to bear in mind.

Firstly, you need to be clear as to which KDSM board is in the KRDSM. If it is a KDSM/1, it will undoubtedly be superior sound-wise to any of the Akurate models, as it is essentially the same generation as the ADSM/1. Personally, I'd hold off on buying a KRDSM based on the original KDSM as a longer-term solution, as that technology is getting a bit long in the tooth.

The second point is the obvious one about the Renew models not being upgradeable, which makes them, in that sense, more rapidly depreciating assets.

Finally, as the reason for going from a DS to a DSM is better system integration and facilities, it is important to ensure that the KRDSM has everything you need in this respect, because it is not as well provided with inputs and outputs as the ADSM. The cost of that greatly improved sound quality is not just financial.

David

Don't disagree with your points but my thinking was:

Yes I should have said go for KDSM/1 not original version.
Renew is probably more depreciating as a % of cost but doubt more in £ - e.g. at very worst it could only lose £3.6k of cost and also this is less than the cost of a KDSM upgrade (so relatively good value).
Agree need to check number of input connections but thought he just wanted to add TV so there should be enough for that, even if a turntable takes up the analogue input, using Toslink or HDMI (as I have done with my KDSM/1).

(2017-10-18 19:10)mrco99 Wrote:  Indeed non-upgradeability of a Klimax Renew DSM can be a dealbreaker. I doubt any of those will have the 2.0 HDMI board inside - and if they do it must be a very recent KRDSM1 with Exakt ports that will be well over £3.6K.

Also you have to do without a screen, so it's only operational with a remote/iThing or such. No buttons on the device too, apart from a power switch.

I didn't realise he needed HDMI 2.0 - if so agree that would be too expensive and rare but wouldn't HDMI 1 be ok (tis for me)?
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2017-10-18, 21:57
Post: #28
RE: Upgrade advice please
I think we're missing the OP's point here, straying a bit beyond the remit:
1. End of upgrades and tinkering, final solution, single system.
2. Most compatible with TV options now and in the future.

Because of 1 (and 2), a Klimax renew isn't really a good option.
Because of 2, HDMI 2.0 is best and most future-proof, hence ADSM/2 upgrade from ADS/0.

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2017-10-18, 22:04
Post: #29
RE: Upgrade advice please
I’ve been looking at the Linn Price list and it seems to me that the upgrade to an ADSM is the way to go. There is a huge saving over a new ADSM. I also get HDMI 2.0 which is essential for my 4k TV. Thanks for all the suggestions to go for a Klimax Renew, but this is not something I would consider for my main Hi-Fi. If I do go for the ADSM upgrade. This still leaves me the option to look to getting a further 2250 (I know this is an extra box) and going active with my Keilidh's.

Bill.

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2017-10-18, 23:22 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-18 23:23 by DavidHB.)
Post: #30
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-18 21:23)Johnny_Thunders Wrote:  Renew is probably more depreciating as a % of cost but doubt more in £ - e.g. at very worst it could only lose £3.6k of cost and also this is less than the cost of a KDSM upgrade (so relatively good value).

Good points (though, it seems, not enough to convince the OP - see below). However, in this environment, 'depreciation' is probably measured less in the reduction in the resale value of the kit and more in terms of the estimated time until the next upgrade becomes inevitable ... Smile



(2017-10-18 22:04)billzab Wrote:  I’ve been looking at the Linn Price list and it seems to me that the upgrade to an ADSM is the way to go.

That's what I'd expect you to say, and it does seem like the obvious answer. But I should, once again, whisper the word Katalyst into your ear. Will that increase the depreciation (see above) of your new system to an unacceptable degree?

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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