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Upgrade advice please
2017-10-19, 00:05 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-19 00:24 by Johnny_Thunders.)
Post: #31
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-18 23:22)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-10-18 21:23)Johnny_Thunders Wrote:  Renew is probably more depreciating as a % of cost but doubt more in £ - e.g. at very worst it could only lose £3.6k of cost and also this is less than the cost of a KDSM upgrade (so relatively good value).

Good points (though, it seems, not enough to convince the OP - see below). However, in this environment, 'depreciation' is probably measured less in the reduction in the resale value of the kit and more in terms of the estimated time until the next upgrade becomes inevitable ... Smile



(2017-10-18 22:04)billzab Wrote:  I’ve been looking at the Linn Price list and it seems to me that the upgrade to an ADSM is the way to go.

That's what I'd expect you to say, and it does seem like the obvious answer. But I should, once again, whisper the word Katalyst into your ear. Will that increase the depreciation (see above) of your new system to an unacceptable degree?

David

And if the ADSM gets the Kat treatment in 2018 you will kick yourself for not having waited if the improvement is anything like that on the KDSM when that went to Kat (even though I rate the KDSM1 highly as I wrote above, the KDSM2 with Kat is a big further step forward).

I would still advocate listening to the KRDSM1 v. the current ADSM before taking the plunge as there's a school of thought that a KDS/KDSM from 1 generation before is still significantly better than a current gen ADS/ADSM (though with your HDMI issue that might not be the case for TV sound, I don't know about that).
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2017-10-19, 08:56 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-19 09:00 by DavidHB.)
Post: #32
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-19 00:05)Johnny_Thunders Wrote:  I would still advocate listening to the KRDSM1 v. the current ADSM before taking the plunge as there's a school of thought that a KDS/KDSM from 1 generation before is still significantly better than a current gen ADS/ADSM (though with your HDMI issue that might not be the case for TV sound, I don't know about that).

As I understand it, HDMI 2.0 is as much (or perhaps more) about facilities and connectivity as about sound quality. With Bill's requirement, I would guess that HDMI 2.0 is pretty much essential for a longer term system. There will, as you seem to infer, be very few if any KRDSMs around with HDMI 2.0 boards. Unless, that is, Linn upgrade the board as part of the Renew conversion, which would seem to be at odds with the concept of the Renew. In that respect, of course, a Renew is likely to be different to an upgrade, which will always be to the current spec.

All of that said, I fully agree with you about the implications of Katalyst. It's always difficult to suggest that someone should hold off when they already have the upgrade gleam in their eye, but there is a case for holding off here. The alternative is to factor the cost of a further upgrade (which, at a guess based on current prices, will be somewhere in the £3K range) into the currently planned purchase. That would spread the outlay, but make the complete deal quite expensive.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-10-19, 09:10
Post: #33
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-19 08:56)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-10-19 00:05)Johnny_Thunders Wrote:  I would still advocate listening to the KRDSM1 v. the current ADSM before taking the plunge as there's a school of thought that a KDS/KDSM from 1 generation before is still significantly better than a current gen ADS/ADSM (though with your HDMI issue that might not be the case for TV sound, I don't know about that).

As I understand it, HDMI 2.0 is as much (or perhaps more) about facilities and connectivity as about sound quality. With Bill's requirement, I would guess that HDMI 2.0 is pretty much essential for a longer term system. There will, as you seem to infer, be very few if any KRDSMs around with HDMI 2.0 boards. Unless, that is, Linn upgrade the board as part of the Renew conversion, which would seem to be at odds with the concept of the Renew. In that respect, of course, a Renew is likely to be different to an upgrade, which will always be to the current spec.

All of that said, I fully agree with you about the implications of Katalyst. It's always difficult to suggest that someone should hold off when they already have the upgrade gleam in their eye, but there is a case for holding off here. The alternative is to factor the cost of a further upgrade (which, at a guess based on current prices, will be somewhere in the £3K range) into the currently planned purchase. That would spread the outlay, but make the complete deal quite expensive.

David
The only way to get a Renew with HDMI 2.0 is to do the HDMI -upgrade- first, and upgrade the KDSM afterwards. This is the Asperger way to do this and in good Linn tradition they stick to that.
People have complaining about this before on the forum as they do not understand/appreciate that Linn is really, really like that. It is sometimes impractical I admit, but it has advantages too and as they are very predictable, it makes it actually easier to deal with.

Of course the only people who choose this upgrade path have a strong personal interest in getting an HDMI 2.0 enabled KRDMS, so the second hand offerings will be very sparse.

And as you say, HDMI 2.0 is more about connectivity than about quality.

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2017-10-19, 09:27
Post: #34
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-19 09:10)Tin Wrote:  The only way to get a Renew with HDMI 2.0 is to do the HDMI -upgrade- first, and upgrade the KDSM afterwards. This is the Asperger way to do this and in good Linn tradition they stick to that.
People have complaining about this before on the forum as they do not understand/appreciate that Linn is really, really like that. It is sometimes impractical I admit, but it has advantages too and as they are very predictable, it makes it actually easier to deal with.

Thanks for the confirmation. I think I see Linn's point as you describe it. The whole purpose of the Renew concept is that serviceable but obsolete parts are given a new use rather than consigned to landfill. That would surely apply to the HDMI boards as much as to the main boards. Many people (including me) will not want to use the HDMI feature in any case; for those people the HDMI standard is irrelevant unless and until they sell on their DS or DSM.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-10-19, 09:31
Post: #35
RE: Upgrade advice please
HDMI 2.0 is about connectivity and control, CRC and all that, yes. But it's also about 4K, which is a pretty major quality consideration for those you are into TV and Moves in particular. It's also needed for 3D, even though for most people that's a damp squib for home theatres.

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
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2017-10-19, 09:42
Post: #36
RE: Upgrade advice please
Talking of upgrades (and I hope the OP won't mind as he's pretty much decided?), I wonder if it would ever be offered to "upgrade" an AEDSM to ADSM?
The only reason I'd want to do it is for the analogue channels if I ever wanted to go Exakt Surround, so I could use them with passive rears, but it would open up the possibility. The price differential new is far more than DS to DSM so if they could offer it, it would save having to sell on an AEDSM to the 2nd hand market (which I can quite imagine would be hard to do especially for a decent price).

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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2017-10-19, 09:49
Post: #37
RE: Upgrade advice please
(2017-10-19 09:27)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-10-19 09:10)Tin Wrote:  The only way to get a Renew with HDMI 2.0 is to do the HDMI -upgrade- first, and upgrade the KDSM afterwards. This is the Asperger way to do this and in good Linn tradition they stick to that.
People have complaining about this before on the forum as they do not understand/appreciate that Linn is really, really like that. It is sometimes impractical I admit, but it has advantages too and as they are very predictable, it makes it actually easier to deal with.

Thanks for the confirmation. I think I see Linn's point as you describe it. The whole purpose of the Renew concept is that serviceable but obsolete parts are given a new use rather than consigned to landfill. That would surely apply to the HDMI boards as much as to the main boards. Many people (including me) will not want to use the HDMI feature in any case; for those people the HDMI standard is irrelevant unless and until they sell on their DS or DSM.

David
I don't use HDMI at the moment either, but if I would replace my Unidisk SC for an Oppo equivalent, which would be necessary to use Exakt in my specific setup. Its always mixed bags isn't it. Smile
In surround setups HDMI has sonic advantages too compared to going analogue directly or using SPDIF, so more mixed bags there too.

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2017-10-19, 10:11
Post: #38
RE: Upgrade advice please
Does the Linn HDMI 2.0 support the "a" or "b" specifications? This is important for HDR (High Dynamic Range) support which is a major difference in image vibrancy.

HDR standards are in flux at the moment and HDMI 2.0a/b supports the static variant. Dynamic HDR will need HDMI 2.1 which is coming late this/early next year. Dynamic HDR looks better than the static variant indeed, it's just again a mess with competing standards that the consumer has to deal with.

Linn probably won't support HDMI 2.1 for at least another year.

So basically this come down to the question if you already have a TV? If you have one go from there and don't worry about the above.

If you also plan to get a new TV I'd definitely advise to wait at least another 6 months to see where the HDR-thing is going.

These things plus the Katalyst option might be factors to consider when making the upgrade decisions.

Personally I am wondering if just getting a second 2250 now to go active wouldn't be a sensible option.

This wouldn't give you the ability to connect the TV to the stereo but be a really nice stereo for sure Wink

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2017-10-22, 19:02
Post: #39
RE: Upgrade advice please
UPDATE: Just thought I would let everyone know what my decision is on the upgrade. Taking everyone’s comments onboard, especially, regarding forthcoming Katalyst upgrade, I have taken the decision to upgrade my AkurateDS/0 to an ADSM. I called my dealer (Hi-Fi Corner in Edinburgh) on Friday morning and after discussing the upgrade, dropped off my old unit in the afternoon (no turning back now). I’m a kind of ‘spur of the moment’ type guy, and I have the money available at the moment. I also tend to do more listening to music over the winter months. If I waited until next year, I may changed my mind or spent the money on a new bike in the spring.

Now for the interesting (and worrying) part. While my AkurateDS is away to Linn for the upgrade, I still wanted to listen to music in my lounge. I have a RaspberryPI with Hifiberry DAC connected to my Linn Classik/Kans in my study. I have connected the Pi through a Tidsbury passive pre-amp to my 2250/Keilidh’s. What a shock I got when I fired it up, I was astounded at the sound. I actually had to sit down a play several well known tracks to give my ears a chance to take in what I was hearing. I was sitting listening, trying to convince myself that this was not better than my AkurateDS, when my wife walked in the room and said “That’s a nice sound, nicer than what you had before”. I did a quick tot up in my head and realised that the total cost of this front end is less than £250. I just hope that the £3,400 I am spending on the ADSM is going to be worth it or I am in deep shit with her indoors.

Bill.

ADSM2 | 2250 | K400 | Keilidhs
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2017-10-23, 09:24 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-23 09:26 by Tin.)
Post: #40
RE: Upgrade advice please
I'm a bit surprised, but thinking about it, it started to make some sense: Your ADS/0 didn't have a Dynamik powersupply, which was holding it back. The DAC of the HiFiBerry is newer, the electronics have seen 10 years of progress as well, and the volume control of the first DSs was notoriously bad. If you'd have had a separate pre it would have worked so much better.

Your new ADSM will have the Dynamik powersupply, still use the old DAC, have newer electronics and a very good pre-amp.
You should be thrilled with it.

If you aren't, you at least can sell the ADSM with some profit compared to the price of the upgrade and you'd have the HiFiBerry that suits you better.
Either way you win.

Tin can telephone system.
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