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I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
2017-10-29, 11:19
Post: #1
I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
Hi to everyone.

I'm an older user, like a lot of muscilovers here.
52 yo, (nearly) up to date with the audio wishes I had but....
Since my wife didn't like the piles of cd's in the livingroom I moved most of them to the first floor behind doors.
So you might understand I don't play a lot of cd's anymore.

Now I think I like to stream my cd's from a NAS.
I'm not sure yet so I think it is smart to start with a used Linn DS, Majik to keep it afortable. Mark1?

Please tell me how you think about this.
Thanks, Arno
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2017-10-29, 11:40 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-29 11:49 by R-Know.)
Post: #2
RE: I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
My system:
Recordplayer: Linn LP12, Ittok, Asaka, Lingo etc.
CD player: Creek CD50 mk2
Pre amp: Classe Audio Five 5
Power amp: Classe Audio Seventy 70
Speakers: B&W 802N
A few nice interlinks, speaker cables and medium power cords.
Synology NAS 4TB
Also a Medi8er 800 for which can stream but it sounds like Spotify. Not the thing I want.

In the future I might like a better, more expensive streamer when it is what I expect from a streamer, an easy way to listen to enjoy my music in a analog sound.

Now I've seen a DS for €1000 here in Holland.
Is this a good starter or is this too old compared to the newer streamers?
Can I rip my own cd's in an way before spending hundreds of Euros to a ripping system?

Thanks so far.
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2017-10-29, 15:52 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-29 15:56 by mackhm.)
Post: #3
RE: I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
Hello Arno,

I would suggest that to match the quality of your system, you might be well advised to look for an Akurate DS rather than a Majik DS, and if possible a DS/1 (which is the first revision/upgrade of the Akurate DS). However, if you can't find a used example of an Akurate DS/1, or don't want to spend as much money, then an Akurate DS/0 (the original Akurate version) will be your next best bet. Failing this, then the Majik will also be a pretty good buy, if not quite up to the level of your system as a whole. Better still would be a KLimax Renew DS or DS/1 if you can get one for a reasonable amount of money. It just boils down to what you can get and how much you are willing to pay. I would personally recommend going for at least an Akurate with a system of your quality.

The good news is that you don't need a specialised ripping system to rip your CDs. All you will need is dbPoweramp. This is a software program that runs on Microsoft Windows which you can buy for not very much money, and is used by the vast majority of people I know who rip CDs to their NAS devices. You have a Synology NAS which is a very good start, and dbPoweramp will be able to rip CDs directly from your laptop or desktop PC to your NAS. When you first start, make sure that you rip enough metadata to allow your music collection to be sorted in the way that you would like. This might sound daunting (I have no way of knowing how much of an IT background you have). Most people just sort by artist or album title in the case of non classical music, and if this is the case then you really don't have to worry. dbPoweramp default settings will probably be just fine. However, if your CD collection is primarily classical music, you will probably want to spend a little more time working out just how you would like to be able to view and access your music collection through the Kazoo app.

You will need to install and run something called a uPnP server on your NAS if you haven't already done so, but again the good news is that your Synology NAS should come with two of these as packages that are ready to install (Synology's own music server and minimServer). minimServer is a bit better (in my view), and much faster in it's ability to handle album artwork, but is quite a bit trickier to install and configure. I would probably start off with Synology's own uPnP music server until you get the hang of things. You can always switch to minimServer in the future once you have got the hang of streaming.

You will also need to install Linn's control software (Kazoo) on one of your Windows, IOS or Android devices to allow you to control your Linn streamer. Kazoo, along with whichever Linn streaming device will also provide you with the opportunity to subscribe to either Qubouz or Tidal Hi-Fi internet based streaming services (which both offer CD quality streaming) in the future, should you chose to do so.

Finally, for reliability of operation, I would strongly recommend that you buy a cheapish gigabit network switch (around £40 to £50) for your home network (eg something from TP-link or Netgear). I would suggest that you don't plug the NAS directly into your router, but rather connect both your router and your NAS to the Network switch using standard (cat 6) Ethernet cables . This will establish a simple and reliable network for your local music streaming.

I have no way of knowing how much of the above is likely to appear to be totally confusing to you. But if any of my post is not clear or just plain totally confusing, let me know and I'd be happy to give any further advice, and I am sure there are many others on this forum with much more comprehensive knowledge than myself who would also be very willing to help.

Main: Michell Orbe/Tecnoarm/Dynavector DV20X2;Trigon Advance; Linn Klimax DS/1; Lindemann 830S; Lindemann 858; Magnepan 3.6R; TQ UB; Synology DS216+II
AV: Sonore microRendu/Teddy Pardo 7v PS/Gustard U12/Hugo DAC; Krell Showcase Pre/Pwr; Ruark Solstice/Prologue/Dialogue/REL Storm II
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2017-10-29, 15:53 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-29 15:53 by Tin.)
Post: #4
RE: I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
R-know,

I'm Dutch as well and live near Groningen. You're more than welcome for a visit.

As for your question, you forgot to tell what type and age of DS you saw, so I can't say whether or not it is worth it. If it is the S.o.M. ad on Marktplaats, I think it may be bit expensive as you can get a new one for €1980. I would suggest looking into an (secondhand) (Akurate) DSM though as that would allow you to replace the Classe Pre and giving you access to SPACE Optimisation on both your streamer as your LP12.
SPACE is really a game changer, and if you buy a DS instead of a DSM you can still use it for streaming, but not for your LP12 and you'll regret that.

You don't need an expensive ripper. Install DBPoweramp or Exakt Audio Copy on your computer and you'll be fine.

Tin can telephone system.
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2017-10-29, 19:52
Post: #5
RE: I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
Hi Arno,
You sound just like me only a few months ago. Indeed we are quite alike but I am a few years your senior and I know virtually nothing and indeed had to get some help on this forum but now I know its not a very difficult thing to master. But I do realise it does frighten us 'oldies' and that its very easy for someone to say 'if I can do it anyone can' but in reality its not that hard once we get into it. One thing for sure its the best thing you can do, apart from the record playing side of your system. I kept my expenses at a minimum and bought a second hand Majik DS but a brand new Inneos combined CD ripper and storage unit. It cost me about £1500 all in so not that cheap but worth every penny. It walks all over my cd player and the Space thing is absolutely amazing. Any problems can be answered here on the forum and if you get an Inneos it really is easy once you realise what it does. I can certainly help you with that one. Good luck whatever you buy.

Linn Majik DS, Inneos 1 TB CD ripper, LP12, Ittok, Lingo3, Circus, Tranquility, Denon 309 MC, Lehman black signature phono, Exotik pre amp, x6 LK100 power amps, Kudos Tuner, Keltic Aktiv speakers, Ikea rack, Cadenzas on phono, Cadenzas and Linn silvers connect the 6 amps, Chord Odyssey II cables.
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2017-10-29, 22:01
Post: #6
RE: I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
(2017-10-29 19:52)Wiltshireman Wrote:  Hi Arno,
You sound just like me only a few months ago. Indeed we are quite alike but I am a few years your senior and I know virtually nothing and indeed had to get some help on this forum but now I know its not a very difficult thing to master. But I do realise it does frighten us 'oldies' and that its very easy for someone to say 'if I can do it anyone can' but in reality its not that hard once we get into it. One thing for sure its the best thing you can do, apart from the record playing side of your system. I kept my expenses at a minimum and bought a second hand Majik DS but a brand new Inneos combined CD ripper and storage unit. It cost me about £1500 all in so not that cheap but worth every penny. It walks all over my cd player and the Space thing is absolutely amazing. Any problems can be answered here on the forum and if you get an Inneos it really is easy once you realise what it does. I can certainly help you with that one. Good luck whatever you buy.
Good to see that you feel so much more confident. Smile
Age is, or should, not to be a reason to stop trying new things in life.

Tin can telephone system.
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2017-10-29, 22:31 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-29 22:37 by DavidHB.)
Post: #7
RE: I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
Wiltshireman's post is the most important so far. Not that the others have not given good advice, but as an example of how, if you can make the leap, the benefits are really worthwhile. Like Wiltshireman, I can give you a fair few years, but I only started streaming four years ago, when I was a lot older than you are now. Age doesn't matter in this game.

My advice is going to take a different line from what has been said so far. Understandably, when people think about streaming they think about the sexy (and expensive) bits of kit they might buy. But, when people have problems with streaming systems, the things that trip them up are the network itself or the need to rip and tag CDs correctly, so that the server can recognise the files and stream them reliably to the player.

Rule one of streaming is that wires are best. Whatever device you store your music library on needs to be connected to the player (DS or DSM in Linn terminology) via Ethernet, which is faster, more reliable and easier to fix if it goes wrong than the alternatives. So the first thing to think about is how you are going to run those wires without creating a domestic ruckus. Mine are mostly either (thanks to forward planning) in the wall or at the edge of the room under the carpet. And there is one room with wooden flooring where a bit of moulding hiding the wire is pretending to be part of the skirting board, and another room where the wire runs outside the house and goes through the wall to the socket. Which is just a way of saying that ingenuity in running wires is a often better strategy than costly and complex wireless bridges or whatever.

Rule two is that music files need to be in a lossless format (FLAC unless the use of Apple kit is unavoidable, in which case you will need ALAC), and they also need to be securely ripped and properly tagged. Use a program such as dBpoweramp (available for PC and Mac). Its cost is tiny in relation to the cost of a streamer, but it guarantees a good rip and also does a lot of the tagging work for you. You will probably also need a standalone tag editing program; MP3Tag (PC) or Metadatics (Mac) are good recommendations.

Rule three is that you need decent server software. Buy a NAS (for example, from Synology or QNAP) that allows you to install third party applications. Hereabouts, the most common recommendations for Server software are MinimServer (free, but with a donation requested) and Asset UPnP (from the author of dBpoweramp and with a similar modest cost). Linn's own Kazoo Server is another possibility, for people who like to keep things simple and don't want to experiment with settings (it has very little by way of user-configurable options).

Rule four is: plan for backups before you start building a library. Hard drives fail eventually; having a backup makes that event an annoyance rather than a catastrophe. It is best to ensure that your workflow for ripping, downloading and tagging albums includes updating your backup. My way of doing this is to keep my master library (where I do all the ripping and tagging) on my PC, and then copy the new and updated files over to the NAS, from which I actually play the music. That way the backup is created, so to speak, automatically.

Rule five is that if you plan to use a Linn DS, you will need an OpenHome compatible control point, on a tablet, phone or computer to run the streaming system. There are quite strong opinions here on the forum as to which is the best control point. You can start with Linn's own software (Kazoo or the older Kinsky, which is still available); if you are using Android devices, I would strongly recommend BubbleDS Next.

Rule six (well, more a recommendation than a rule) is to set up a dummy streaming system on your network before you spend big bucks on Hi-Fi hardware. Put, say, MinimServer with a sample library on your NAS, connect it (as you normally would in any case) to your to your computer via Ethernet, and install the free OpenHome Player software on the computer. Install Kazoo on your phone or tablet, and get it all to work together so that Kazoo can control the music streaming from the NAS to the player on the computer. The results will not be Hi-Fi, of course, but they will give you confidence that your expensive streamer, when you buy it, will work without problems when you install it.

Rule seven, when you finally come to buy that streamer, is that your ears are the ones that matter. Do listen for yourself and do make up your own mind. Well, a significant other may also want a say in the matter, but that's something on which none of us here can advise Smile.

Finally rule eight is: whatever else you do, enjoy. That's what this stuff is here for, after all.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-10-30, 20:29
Post: #8
RE: I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
Thanks you all so much.
These are very usefull replies.

I'm not sure what streamer it will be. One thing is, it will be Linn.

As Tin noticed, the used one I found, yes from MP, is half the price of a new one which I've read on this forum is more than steps ahead of the older ones.

As for as my system, I am a record player, will stay so. Streaming will never be number one source for joy or fun.
It will eventually replace the cd player.
I'm very happy that I don't have to buy a ripper. Only some software. No big deal.

I'm gonna read the replies again and will come back with more questions.

Thanks again.
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2017-10-30, 21:16
Post: #9
RE: I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
[quote='R-Know' pid='455449' dateline='1509391778']
Thanks you all so much.
These are very usefull replies.

1, I'm not sure what streamer it will be. One thing is, it will be Linn.

2, As for as my system, I am a record player, will stay so. Streaming will never be number one source for joy or fun.
It will eventually replace the cd player.

3, I'm gonna read the replies again and will come back with more questions.


Hi Arno,
1, By far the best thing to decide on, wait to you introduce Space you will be amazed!!!

2, Lp's are still far the best source and I am very sure it will take many years before its over taken.

3, Bring them on however simple or easy the question there is always someone here who will be more than happy to help you out. I even had one forum member drive to my home to help me, now thats what I call amazing and I will always be indebted to him.

Linn Majik DS, Inneos 1 TB CD ripper, LP12, Ittok, Lingo3, Circus, Tranquility, Denon 309 MC, Lehman black signature phono, Exotik pre amp, x6 LK100 power amps, Kudos Tuner, Keltic Aktiv speakers, Ikea rack, Cadenzas on phono, Cadenzas and Linn silvers connect the 6 amps, Chord Odyssey II cables.
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2017-10-31, 07:55
Post: #10
RE: I want to start streaming but don't know were to start.
I have been in your shoes and my first foray into streaming was very rewarding but wasn't a linn DS or DSM. I now have a KRDSM because I wanted to go Exakt and as I also run a high spec LP12 was very important to me to maintain a level of analogue performance from my system.

You have a good spec LP12 and I assume a record collection to match, DSM at akurate level or below for me don't cut it for highest quality lp12 playback. If you can't afford to go Klimax level DSM you are better keeping your preamp. Of course as advised you could buy a linn DS and connect this to your classe pre. You will have space optimization for streaming but not for lp12 in this setup.

The cheapest way into streaming is of course to buy a USB DAC connect to your media PC, run foobar2000 (free) and install plugin on Ipad or phone ($5) you then have a very user friendly streaming setup.

I started with a linn 5103 pre amp/processor which had a built in DAC. It's also a great analogue pre-amp better than my Kairn it replaced. You can pick these up for $500. That served me well for a couple of years then I upgraded to classe CP-800 again with built in DAC of high quality, but with a phenomenal analogue input. my point is being a LP12 owner and taking the step into digital streaming step carefully and don't jump in too deep as you may compromise your analogue playback until you get to a certain level of digital reproduction.

LP12 - Mober DC, Trampoline, Kore, Cirkus, Ekos 2, Lyra Kleos, Linto, T-Kable.
Electronics - Renew KDSM/1, AK ExaktBox 6, 2 x Tundra Stereo, Bryston 9BSST.
Music Server - Windows 10 PC, Twonky, Kazoo on Ipad 2
Speakers - Linn Killer Keltiks, stupidly thick Linn speaker cable.
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