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Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
2017-12-06, 22:56
Post: #31
RE: Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
Thanks Timster, Better Music, and all.

After spending 4 nights on this I've decided to give up and get some professional help -- I'll start with a network guy at a local hifi shop and if that doesn't work I'll be looking for a psychiatrist! I haven't been able to locate my NAS or Twonky on my mac or at the websites for either Qnap or Twonky. I suspect I won't be able to find a Linn specialist here, so I have just a couple more questions.

If we install Minimserver, do we need to remove Twonky or can I have them both on there and just use Minimim?

Should I insist of minimim if they push for Jrivers or some other server (that's the one they're most familiar with)?

Also wondering if it would make sense for me to just try to get my iphone softward changed back to the previous version -- wouldn't that allow me to use Songbook Lite? Or is that app no longer functional.

Thanks again for all your help. I'll try to pay attention to what is done and ask questions so I'll be better able to work with these things in the future.

Cheers,
Tom

Renew DS, Axis TT, KK, 2250, Vienna Acoustics Mahlers
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2017-12-06, 23:12
Post: #32
RE: Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
(2017-12-06 22:56)Tpy Wrote:  Thanks Timster, Better Music, and all.

After spending 4 nights on this I've decided to give up and get some professional help -- I'll start with a network guy at a local hifi shop and if that doesn't work I'll be looking for a psychiatrist! I haven't been able to locate my NAS or Twonky on my mac or at the websites for either Qnap or Twonky. I suspect I won't be able to find a Linn specialist here, so I have just a couple more questions.

If we install Minimserver, do we need to remove Twonky or can I have them both on there and just use Minimim?

Should I insist of minimim if they push for Jrivers or some other server (that's the one they're most familiar with)?

Also wondering if it would make sense for me to just try to get my iphone softward changed back to the previous version -- wouldn't that allow me to use Songbook Lite? Or is that app no longer functional.

Thanks again for all your help. I'll try to pay attention to what is done and ask questions so I'll be better able to work with these things in the future.

Cheers,
Tom
No need to remove Twonky you can use both servers if want to.
After installing MinimServer you probably never use Twonky anymore!

Peter.
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2017-12-07, 14:51
Post: #33
RE: Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
My vote, minimserver.

Gary

LP12/Cirkus/Radikal/Kore/Ekos1/Tkable balanced/Uphorik/Krystal/ADSM/1/aktiv Akubariks
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2017-12-07, 15:28 (This post was last modified: 2017-12-07 15:31 by eamonnb.)
Post: #34
RE: Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
(2017-12-06 22:56)Tpy Wrote:  Thanks Timster, Better Music, and all.

After spending 4 nights on this I've decided to give up and get some professional help -- I'll start with a network guy at a local hifi shop and if that doesn't work I'll be looking for a psychiatrist! I haven't been able to locate my NAS or Twonky on my mac or at the websites for either Qnap or Twonky. I suspect I won't be able to find a Linn specialist here, so I have just a couple more questions.

If we install Minimserver, do we need to remove Twonky or can I have them both on there and just use Minimim?

Should I insist of minimim if they push for Jrivers or some other server (that's the one they're most familiar with)?

Also wondering if it would make sense for me to just try to get my iphone softward changed back to the previous version -- wouldn't that allow me to use Songbook Lite? Or is that app no longer functional.

Thanks again for all your help. I'll try to pay attention to what is done and ask questions so I'll be better able to work with these things in the future.

Cheers,
Tom


Hi Tom

Someone who is knowledgeable in computing/networking should be able to help you out, if you want to install a new sever etc, but that shouldn't be necessary to solve the original problem you reported (tracks not playing in order, sometimes).

As has been stated earlier, by others in this thread, the tracks which are not ordered properly are the ones that are not tagged properly/at all. If they were tagged properly you would see them from the normal media server views (artist, album etc), then they would play in the correct order.

I understand that you have a very large music collection but I assume the tracks that are not tagged properly are a small subset of the total. Is this correct? If so, you could tag or re-rip those ones and your problem would be solved. I appreciate that minimserver may do a good job at properly ordering music files that are not tagged properly, but the correct solution is to tag the files properly.

Did you personally rip your CDs and transfer them to your NAS, or did someone do this for you? Do you have any experience of ripping CDs? Retagging is fairly straightforward, although time consuming. There are good software tools available to help you do it. If this is unappealing, re-ripping may be a better option for you.

Let me know if you need any more help/advice on this.

Eamonn

Majik DSM/1 - Akurate 2200 - Akurate 212, Sneaky Music DS - Komponent 104
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2017-12-07, 18:47
Post: #35
RE: Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
Hi Eamon,

What puzzles me most is that Songbook Lite displayed and played all my files in order regardless of whether I used folder or artist/album view. It had an option of choosing track or alphabetical order. Doesn't that imply that the track order metadata must be on the files? As I recall, Songbook Lite was a popular control point among those on the forum a few years ago. Did the folks there simply stop updating? Would it work for me to go back to the earlier version of iphone software -- and thus go back to Songbook? How could this app find track numbers if they're no there?

Also, are you saying that Minim will NOT find track numbers, which is why I should run a tagging program? Being so uniformed about how that would work, I'm worried that I might lose my files -- and I have way too many to risk that, well over 5k last I checked.

The other big puzzle for me is that Kazoo shows all the files from my NAS when I use the folders approach (but plays displays in alphabetical order), but misses alot of them (for some artists, half of what I have) when I use the artist/album approach (but does display in correct order).

I either ripped the files myself or downloaded them from high res websites (mostly Qobuz, but also HD tracks, Linn, and a few others) and have some older live concerts downloaded from sites that do those.

Any insight into what'd going on would be appreciated.

Renew DS, Axis TT, KK, 2250, Vienna Acoustics Mahlers
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2017-12-07, 23:10 (This post was last modified: 2017-12-07 23:20 by DavidHB.)
Post: #36
RE: Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
(2017-12-07 18:47)Tpy Wrote:  What puzzles me most is that Songbook Lite displayed and played all my files in order regardless of whether I used folder or artist/album view. It had an option of choosing track or alphabetical order. Doesn't that imply that the track order metadata must be on the files?

Not necessarily, or possibly not in the form expected by the majority of control points. Sadly, metadata standards are not as standard, or at least as fully observed, as they should be.

(2017-12-07 18:47)Tpy Wrote:  Also, are you saying that Minim will NOT find track numbers, which is why I should run a tagging program? Being so uniformed about how that would work, I'm worried that I might lose my files -- and I have way too many to risk that, well over 5k last I checked.

Security is what backups are for. You do have a full backup of your music library, don't you? If not, that is an omission to be rectified without delay. A good tagging program (for example, MP3Tag for Windows, or Metadatics for the Mac) will not damage your files in any case.

(2017-12-07 18:47)Tpy Wrote:  The other big puzzle for me is that Kazoo shows all the files from my NAS when I use the folders approach (but plays displays in alphabetical order), but misses alot of them (for some artists, half of what I have) when I use the artist/album approach (but does display in correct order).

These are precisely the symptoms I would expect with untagged or incompletely tagged files. When you are using the folder view, you are navigating by folder and file name. When you are browsing by artist and album, Kazoo is using tags.

To amplify Eamonn's (in my view) entirely correct advice, I will describe what a tagging program would do in your case. The program I use is MP3Tag. It sounds as though you have each album stored in its own folder, which has the same name as the album, and which is contained within an artist folder. That is (in my view) the sensible way to organise music files (for all except classical music, where the usual arrangement is composer > album).

In MP3Tag, you open a folder, and the files appear in a grid. If they are not in the correct order (for example, they appear alphabetically rather than by track number), you can hold down the Alt key and drag and drop files until they are in the correct order. Select all the files (the usual Ctrl-A), and then from the menu go to Tools > Auto Numbering Wizard (or just press Ctrl-K). A dialog opens; just press OK and all your tracks will have the correct track numbers in their metadata. To complete the process, do Convert > Tag to file name. A dialog opens, asking for a format string. Select (or type in, without the quotes, if you need to) "$num(%track%,2) %title%". Then press OK. The files will be renamed with the track number preceding the title, so that they always display in the correct order.

This may sound like a lot to do for each album. In practice, with a decent tagging program, you will be able to do any album after the first two or three in less time than it took you to read the paragraph describing the process. While you are adding the track numbers, you can also add in any missing data including Artist, AlbumArtist and Album where these are not present.

The end result is that you will be able to browse your collection completely and play your music in the correct order. Make sure that you back up your changes, and you should only need to make them once. Doing the job yourself puts you in control, and the knowledge you gain (including by coming back here and asking questions as necessary) will give you confidence that you can look after your precious music collection without expensive outside help.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-12-08, 02:38
Post: #37
RE: Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
Are you suggesting a retagging program as an ALTERNATIVE to switching to Minimserver, or something to do IN ADDITION TO going to Minmserver? I read some of the previous posts as suggesting that simply adding Minimserver would do the trick.

I may be missing something, but as I understand it you're saying that I using a tagging program, I'd have to manually move files around to put them in the correct order. I hope I'm misunderstanding that, becausegiven that I have well over 5000 albums on my NAS and spend way too much time working, this would take months.

I do have my NAS backed up onto a couple of external hard drives, but as I read through threads about backup, I'm getting the impression this isn't a very good way to do this. I last backed things up a couple months ago and I'm getting the impression there are ways to do automatic backups. What's the best approach for that?

My apologies for my ignorance in these matters. I use computers in my work but they're like magic machines to me.
Tom

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2017-12-08, 12:05
Post: #38
RE: Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
Hi Tom

(2017-12-08 02:38)Tpy Wrote:  Are you suggesting a retagging program as an ALTERNATIVE to switching to Minimserver, or something to do IN ADDITION TO going to Minmserver? I read some of the previous posts as suggesting that simply adding Minimserver would do the trick.

Yes, I'm suggesting retagging as an alternative to switching to Minimserver. Minimserver may hide the symptoms of your problem (untagged files) but it doesn't solve the problem. It's always better to solve a problem, if possible, not hide the symptoms. I'm also saying it's easier to retag than to install a new server. And installing a new server may be too difficult/daunting for you, but retagging is not.


(2017-12-08 02:38)Tpy Wrote:  I may be missing something, but as I understand it you're saying that I using a tagging program, I'd have to manually move files around to put them in the correct order. I hope I'm misunderstanding that, becausegiven that I have well over 5000 albums on my NAS and spend way too much time working, this would take months.
No, you shouldn't have to do that. MP3Tag (a tagging application) will work out the ordering for you, you don't have to do it manually (as DavidHB is suggesting). Also, you'll only have to retag some of your albums, not them all.

(2017-12-08 02:38)Tpy Wrote:  I do have my NAS backed up onto a couple of external hard drives, but as I read through threads about backup, I'm getting the impression this isn't a very good way to do this. I last backed things up a couple months ago and I'm getting the impression there are ways to do automatic backups. What's the best approach for that?
Let's focus on tagging for now and deal with back up later.

(2017-12-08 02:38)Tpy Wrote:  My apologies for my ignorance in these matters. I use computers in my work but they're like magic machines to me.
No need to apologise, I feel your pain. Don't despair - we're here to help

Eamonn

Majik DSM/1 - Akurate 2200 - Akurate 212, Sneaky Music DS - Komponent 104
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2017-12-08, 14:07
Post: #39
RE: Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
I fully agree with Eamonn. Just one point about the ordering, to be clear (and as far as I know all tagging programs that have this function work in a similar way). You have to order the tracks in the album grid (using Alt with drag and drop) before you auto-number them. That is how you tell the tagging program what the correct order is.

Once the tracks are correctly tagged with track numbers and have track numbers at the beginning of file names, any server will present them in the correct order. So getting the tags right is more important than changing the server software. That said, MinimServer has a wider range of controls and is much better supported for individual users than Twonky or the in-house DLNA servers that often come pre-installed on NASs. You will find it much easier to get help with MinimServer or Asset, both of which have active forums, than with the pre-installed servers.

I'm glad that you have backups. NASs do, generally, come with some sort of backup utility. Provided you keep your manual backups current, they are, as Eamonn says, a less immediate issue than sorting out the tags. It would only be if you had no backups that the alarm bell would ring.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-12-08, 16:34 (This post was last modified: 2017-12-08 16:37 by mickc.)
Post: #40
RE: Kazoo won't play tracks in order --- sometimes
Tom

Whereabouts are you? It's always possible there's a forum member close by who may be able to offer help...

Mick

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