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Analogue difference on the DSM
2017-12-01, 08:10
Post: #11
RE: Analogue difference on the DSM
isnt the phono stage of the Majik DSM kept in the analogue domain? Therefore does not go through any digital conversion, hence you are maybe just hearing the difference from a digital recording to analogue version?

LP12 - Mober DC, Trampoline, Kore, Cirkus, Ekos 2, Lyra Kleos, Linto, T-Kable.
Electronics - Renew KDSM/1, AK ExaktBox 6, 2 x Tundra Stereo, Bryston 9BSST.
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Speakers - Linn Killer Keltiks, stupidly thick Linn speaker cable.
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2017-12-01, 08:18
Post: #12
RE: Analogue difference on the DSM
(2017-12-01 08:10)finster Wrote:  isnt the phono stage of the Majik DSM kept in the analogue domain? Therefore does not go through any digital conversion, hence you are maybe just hearing the difference from a digital recording to analogue version?

Nope. It is digitised like any other source, unless you turn digital features off. The OP confirmed this isn't the case, it is using the "digital circuit".

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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2017-12-02, 20:12
Post: #13
RE: Analogue difference on the DSM
(2017-12-01 08:18)timster Wrote:  
(2017-12-01 08:10)finster Wrote:  isnt the phono stage of the Majik DSM kept in the analogue domain? Therefore does not go through any digital conversion, hence you are maybe just hearing the difference from a digital recording to analogue version?

Nope. It is digitised like any other source, unless you turn digital features off. The OP confirmed this isn't the case, it is using the "digital circuit".

That's too bad analogue bypass is pretty handy.

LP12 - Mober DC, Trampoline, Kore, Cirkus, Ekos 2, Lyra Kleos, Linto, T-Kable.
Electronics - Renew KDSM/1, AK ExaktBox 6, 2 x Tundra Stereo, Bryston 9BSST.
Music Server - Windows 10 PC, Twonky, Kazoo on Ipad 2
Speakers - Linn Killer Keltiks, stupidly thick Linn speaker cable.
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2017-12-02, 22:35
Post: #14
RE: Analogue difference on the DSM
Most likely they analogue and digital versions are from different masters.

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2017-12-04, 10:42
Post: #15
RE: Analogue difference on the DSM
The master is the same, at least that's what the label tells me. It can be the flac, and that was also the nature of my question: how sure are we there is no difference between the different digital lossless file formats?

Also, is there still a way to bypass the digital circuit for the lp12? Is it possible while still using the dac for all others? Does anybody know how to do that?

LP12・Ekos・Adikt・Lingo・Ikemi・Majik DSM・LK Aktiv system・Keilidhs
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2017-12-04, 11:35
Post: #16
RE: Analogue difference on the DSM
(2017-12-04 10:42)dikki Wrote:  The master is the same, at least that's what the label tells me. It can be the flac, and that was also the nature of my question: how sure are we there is no difference between the different digital lossless file formats?

Also, is there still a way to bypass the digital circuit for the lp12? Is it possible while still using the dac for all others? Does anybody know how to do that?

I think the Disable Digital Features only affects the analogue inputs. So only your LP12 and/or anything else you have as an analogue source would be affected. All other sources are digital so it wouldn't make sense to disable it for them!

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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2017-12-04, 12:16
Post: #17
RE: Analogue difference on the DSM
(2017-12-04 10:42)dikki Wrote:  and that was also the nature of my question: how sure are we there is no difference between the different digital lossless file formats?
You can transcode FLAC into WAV and vice versa about a zillion times and end up with the exact bitwise same files.
They are the same, this is precisely what lossless means in computing; there is no loss of information.

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2017-12-04, 12:24 (This post was last modified: 2017-12-04 12:26 by eamonnb.)
Post: #18
RE: Analogue difference on the DSM
(2017-12-04 11:35)timster Wrote:  I think the Disable Digital Features only affects the analogue inputs. So only your LP12 and/or anything else you have as an analogue source would be affected. All other sources are digital so it wouldn't make sense to disable it for them!

Just to claify...

Each analogue source on the Majik DSM has an independent Digital Features option in Konfig.

When Digital Features is set to ON, the signal is processed (delay, Space Optimisation etc) before it reaches the analogue outputs.

When Digital Features is set to OFF, the signal is not processed (no ADC, no DAC) before it reaches the analogue outputs, and as such can be considered 100% analogue.

Eamonn

Majik DSM/1 - Akurate 2200 - Akurate 212, Sneaky Music DS - Komponent 104
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2017-12-04, 13:30
Post: #19
RE: Analogue difference on the DSM
(2017-12-04 12:16)Tin Wrote:  You can transcode FLAC into WAV and vice versa about a zillion times and end up with the exact bitwise same files.
They are the same, this is precisely what lossless means in computing; there is no loss of information.

Not only is this correct, but Linn have stated that they have repeatedly tested it during the course of their development work. However, that is not the whole story, of course. There can be differences in the way the static file data is rendered into a dynamic stream, and other differences in the way the digital stream is converted into an analogue signal. Every device will also have a noise floor and these too will vary. And so on.

I have no idea what bearing, if any, these considerations have on the OP's original point. Indeed, I am increasingly coming to believe that conventional distinctions between 'digital' and 'analogue' as such are artificial and inherently meaningless. All we can say with any confidence (preferably when two or more listeners are present) is that the perceived sound quality of complete system A is different in particular ways from that of complete System B. If both are acceptable in normal listening, why worry? Forget the difference and just listen.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-12-08, 13:05
Post: #20
RE: Analogue difference on the DSM
I'd suspect that everything is right with you settings.

CD matereial is just inferior to LP. It contains less information. Would be better with HD material.
With "Start at the beginning" in mind, there is no way to improve a inferior data format further down the path.

Within 20 years I was never able to get digital to play as satisfying as LP.

Friend of mine has a full blown Katalyst setup with full active Solo'ed Komris - and this setup is perfectly tuned and plays marvellous indeed. But in his perception also, it is not possible to get the "LP-Satisfaction" he enjoys with my (see signature) by far smaller setup.

Enjoy Vinyl!

Loricraft PRC3, LP12 (Keel/Radikal/Ekos SE1/Kandid/Urika), KRDSM/1, KK/2, KS, 242/2; Grado RA1/PS1000
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