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Jukebox: how do you use it?
2017-12-12, 10:28
Post: #1
Jukebox: how do you use it?
Hi Folks,

I'm curious about how people use—or perhaps more accurately, used to use—Kinsky Jukebox. So I have a few questions:

1. What are your reasons for using Jukebox?

2. Are you the primary user, or have you set it up for someone else to use?

3. How do you choose to order your printout? E.g. One album per page or long alphabetical list of albums?

4. How do you deal with additions to your collection after indexing and printing out your list?

5. Are the numbers albums are given important to you?

6. What is frustrating about using Jukebox?

7. What are Jukebox's missing features, how could it have been better?

Any detail about how you use it, or how it helped solve a problem for your family, would be much appreciated.

Jim
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2017-12-12, 11:10
Post: #2
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
O Goody! Heart skipped a beat as I do miss it. Hope this is a good portent for what's to come. Jukebox of Christmas Future perhaps?

1. What are your reasons for using Jukebox?
Primarily for old-style pick and play, without the need for a control point. I used to print out the numbers in alphabetical order so it was easy to find an album, or I would browse on the DS display.

2. Are you the primary user, or have you set it up for someone else to use?
Just me.

3. How do you choose to order your printout? E.g. One album per page or long alphabetical list of albums?
I had a printout of all my albums ordered by albumartist/album. Printed out in multiple columns (I think it was 3x3), each column holding (I think) 20 albums or so. 180 per page, double sided, so...

4. How do you deal with additions to your collection after indexing and printing out your list?
I found that the most frustrating. I had a list of new additions tagged on the end, handwritten, which I only printed out once in a while. And then I'd redo the whole lot, even less often. It was a pain.

5. Are the numbers albums are given important to you?
Not really. Using the remote interface with the DS display was actually easier in the end. Obviously, DS's without a screen is another matter.

6. What is frustrating about using Jukebox?
See above! But also, I originally had it set up when I was using my PC for music storage/server, and with a Sneaky. When I moved to a Synology NAS I couldn't get it to work, so could only keep using it with the PC acting as the server (using a copy of my library).

7. What are Jukebox's missing features, how could it have been better?
1. A package install on QNAP NAS please, so it's easier to setup and manage. (As Linn doesn't support Synology I won't ask!).
2. As per above, a more user-friendly interface.
3. Scanning of m3u playlists as well as music files would be good.
I'm sure there are others but as I haven't used it in however long Davaar 50 has been around, I can't remember for the moment.

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2017-12-12, 13:55 (This post was last modified: 2017-12-12 14:07 by Briain.)
Post: #3
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
Hi

A long while back, I sent the below suggestion to Keith, which he seemed to rather like (I think he then forwarded it to the Jukebox team). Obviously, a cool feature would be a capability for Jukebox to directly print a list of what you have (with the album selection numbers, of course) but an 'export as text' feature would be really useful for folks - like me - who wish to then manipulate the data, prior to printing it. Not only for the reason suggested in below message (that I rely on the AlbumArtist value) but, for example, you might wish to 'restrict' the contents of the printout.

As an example of why you might wish to restrict it, my off-site backup NAS resides at my mum's house and is used with her DS, but to enable her to find her favourite albums, I have added a genre comprising my mum's name. By selecting that genre, she sees only her favourite albums (and not have to wade through my somewhat eclectic collection of punk, ska and reggae, etc Smile ). I would also like to use that as a 'filter' on a printed list for her to use Jukebox, so the best way to do that is via being able to manipulate the data on a spread sheet, or in my case, via an MS Access report linked to a new query, so that is another reason why it would be super-cool (and very useful) if Jukebox had data exporting capabilities.

I Wrote:think that a truly great Jukebox feature would be the capability to export the meta (containing things like albumArtist, artist, album, composer and the Jukebox ID number) as a plain text CSV file (but critically, by using a | instead of a comma). That would mean it could then be opened in Excel (setting Excel to recognise the |) and thus folks could easily delete any unwanted columns prior to printing it.

For example, I heavily rely on albumArtist values (so I'd really need that to be included in the file) but many others folks don't (so their albumArtist meta will likely be a partially populated mess) and, for another example, non-classical fans might not even want the composer meta cluttering up their printout.

Why the pipe? Many years back, I used to scan the entire NAS share using MP3TAG, then export the meta as a pipe separated CSV file, then I import that into an MS Access database and use the reports feature to generate a booklet of my collection. I chose the | because most other punctuation symbols frequently appear in www sourced meta (thus severely screwing up ones columns) but I have yet to see a pipe in the meta, so it seems to be a pretty safe choice. Even if a solitary | did find its way into the meta, it would be very easy to spot the messed up line on the spreadsheet.

Okay, what I do is a little 'extreme' (and not many folks know how to drive MS Access), but many folks are already familiar with using Excel (and I could write a forum post explaining how to configure MP3TAG to export a pipe separated CSV, then how to open it in Excel) so it would be a really cool feature that many folks could easily be shown how to use.

Just a thought for the pot.

Kind regards
Bri

PS In my case, I decided to export the below meta info from MP3TAG, then built various queries and reports from an Access query based upon it; the booklets that creates are very cool (and a Jukebox ID would make them massively cooler)!

Hope the above is of use; I would certainly appreciate a data export facility, but I would imagine there could be many others who would also find it very useful.

Bri Smile

NB I use several MS Access reports. For example, non compilation and non-classical albums are grouped by albumartist, whilst for classical, I have a different set of reports, including one grouped by composer (I also use a different report structure for my compilations, but you get the idea) so being able to export the data would be utterly fabulous as it means that my database and reports could contain the Jukebox numbers, too.

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2017-12-12, 15:37
Post: #4
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
(2017-12-12 10:28)Jim Collinson Wrote:  Hi Folks,

I'm curious about how people use—or perhaps more accurately, used to use—Kinsky Jukebox. So I have a few questions:

1. What are your reasons for using Jukebox?

2. Are you the primary user, or have you set it up for someone else to use?

3. How do you choose to order your printout? E.g. One album per page or long alphabetical list of albums?

4. How do you deal with additions to your collection after indexing and printing out your list?

5. Are the numbers albums are given important to you?

6. What is frustrating about using Jukebox?

7. What are Jukebox's missing features, how could it have been better?

Any detail about how you use it, or how it helped solve a problem for your family, would be much appreciated.

Jim

Hi Jim
I used Jukebox to have a Playlist (from NAS) and Load it to the DS with the IR Remote.
Primary User
No Print out.
-
-
6 To install the Server on the Nas and the Handling of Jukebox was not easy.
7 I Like to have 1-9 or more Playlists on the Nas..1 Rock 2 Pop 3 Relax....and then Press on IR # 1 and the Rock Playlist loads automatic in the DS an plays.....That would be nice.
Kind Regards Alex
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2017-12-13, 14:30
Post: #5
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
Quite surprised more people haven't responded to this thread. I hope Linn don't take that to mean there's no demand anymore.

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2017-12-13, 15:55
Post: #6
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
I know of a few people that have been wanting Jukebox again.

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2017-12-13, 22:24
Post: #7
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
I have been waiting on Jukebox’s replacement since it was removed and have said so in a few threads. When I upgraded to the Daavar version that no longer had Jukebox it almost led to divorce in my household. Comments like “you’ve spend all that money on a hifi and I can’t get it to play unless you are in the house???” So here are my answers:

questions:

1. What are your reasons for using Jukebox?

Not so much for me, but my wife needs Jukebox as she does not have a smart phone and only uses her iPad for emails and online shopping. Has no understanding of Kinsky or any other player.

2. Are you the primary user, or have you set it up for someone else to use?

As above, set up for someone else. In saying that, I used it to just play an album when I couldn’t be bothered to use an ithing. Is so easy to get an album playing. I also found friends were far more impressed with Jukebox than any ithing app.

3. How do you choose to order your printout? E.g. One album per page or long alphabetical list of albums?

My A5 booklet was album art in artist alphabetical order. Looked very impressive. I also had the PDF on my iPad in iBooks.

4. How do you deal with additions to your collection after indexing and printing out your list?

I would add them individually and write them in the booklet on the back page. Once a year, I would update the index and reprint the booklet. This does cause problems when you have remembered your fav albums and the number has changed.

5. Are the numbers albums are given important to you?

It would be good if an album retained the same number forever, but not a game changer for me. I can live with them changing every so often if it means getting Jukebox back.

6. What is frustrating about using Jukebox?

Nothing really. As I am tech savvy and can easily set it up and print the booklet, there is no issue.

7. What are Jukebox's missing features, how could it have been better?

Can’t remember too many. The facility to design a front and back page would be good. Also to add my tunein radio list to the booklet would be good.


I hope my answers help. I recently upgraded from a ADS/0 to an ADSM/2 and I almost went for a Naim system instead, just so I can get my wife to use the hifi easily. With the ADSM I have my Classik, which is in another room, connected to my ADSM by a long set of phono leads and my wife can play her CD’s through the main hifi. This is keeping her quiet for now, but if she finds out how much I spent on the ADSM with no Jukebox, i’m Dead.

Living with a technophobe is no laughing matter and this is why Jukebox is so important. I had a Hive system fitted last week and she has to call me at work to get me to turn the heating up??? She won’t drive my Merc because it has an electronic handbrake. She wanted me to send the Sky-Q back and get the old Sky+ back because she couldn’t get it to record. The list is endless.

Bill.[/b]

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2017-12-14, 13:32
Post: #8
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
Like timster, I'd like to keep this thread going. I think (with billzab's post very much in mind) that it touches on a very important issue which is: how do you make a Linn DS(M) user friendly for 'non-techie' people?

In my experience (and billzab's example also bears this out), people these days, even older people, are rarely 100% technophobic. They simply want to choose what they use and how they use it, and they don't want to be, as they see it, prisoners of complexity. I have a neighbour who is perfectly happy using a Windows computer, but who returned an iPad to the shop on the grounds that it was too complex and counter-intuitive to use.

My problem in contributing to this thread is that I never got round to trying out Jukebox before Davaar 50+ took it away from us. Since then, like billzab, I have had family members (in the persons of my daughters, both of whom are daily tablet users) complain that the DSM user interface is clunky, partly because they are less tolerant than I am of circumstances when the network is not playing ball, and partly because they can live with the concept of a playlist when using Spotify or iTunes, but somehow feel that is an unnecessary complication when playing a CD they see on the shelf.

I'm therefore going to answer the questions from the perspective of someone who would like to use a Jukebox successor for ease of access by visiting family members to my music system, the sound of which they very much enjoy.

1. What are your reasons for using Jukebox?

As per the previous explanation.

2. Are you the primary user, or have you set it up for someone else to use?

I am the primary user, but the Jukebox facility would be primarily for guests to use. I envisage it as a means of accessing saved playlists via the remote. I'd like a facility to use standard .m3u playlists, as I have software that can easily create those. I already sore playlists on my server for use with MinimServer, so a facility that allows me to access those playlists would be ideal.

3. How do you choose to order your printout? E.g. One album per page or long alphabetical list of albums?

A full printout is not relevant to my use case. But the ability to print an index list of playlist names and numbers would be useful, but is not essential if it makes using the software more complex.

4. How do you deal with additions to your collection after indexing and printing out your list?

If all I need is an index print of playlists, I see no particular problem in do a reprint when the numbers change.

5. Are the numbers albums are given important to you?

They probably would be. I tend to remember track numbers in my saved playlists, so knowing that playlist x is numbered y is probably a natural extension of that practice.

6. What is frustrating about using Jukebox?

As I never used it, I cannot answer that question. But the installation and management process looked a bit technical, even to me - something to set aside time for, rather than 'just do'. I would hope that something meeting my relatively simple requirement could either be built into the Davaar firmware or be as easy to use as, say, Konfig without the Space Optimisation tab.

7. What are Jukebox's missing features, how could it have been better?

Actually, I believe that this is one case where less is more. While I'm happy for users to have the full facilities of the old Jukebox, something that simply makes standard saved playlists available, say as another 'source', via the remote would be a great improvement for the 'technophobic' user; Briain's use case is instructive in this regard. I'd want to dispense if possible with separate indexing, or at most have the saved playlists indexed rather than the full collection; indexing the collection is the server's job.

I hope this is helpful, and would encourage other forum members to chip in with their views.

David

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2017-12-14, 15:34
Post: #9
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
It is interesting to see how people use Jukebox. I never realised quite why it was used and mostly assumed it was just a legacy of yesteryear. I guess to some extent that is true but it appears with a larger set of fans than I had expected.

I think the only reason I ever used it in anger was that someone told me I could create a random playlist using it and it is the random album or random track playlist feature from the collection that I really miss from other control points and servers. I don't think Jukebox is a great place to put that but if that is the only way to do it then I guess that it. TBH I can't even remember how that worked now and so I will leave it to you those that know and love the product and continue lobbying for a random playlist generator in the control point.

Good luck with it.
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2017-12-14, 16:07
Post: #10
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
(2017-12-14 15:34)Martin H Wrote:  It is interesting to see how people use Jukebox. I never realised quite why it was used and mostly assumed it was just a legacy of yesteryear. I guess to some extent that is true but it appears with a larger set of fans than I had expected.

I think the only reason I ever used it in anger was that someone told me I could create a random playlist using it and it is the random album or random track playlist feature from the collection that I really miss from other control points and servers. I don't think Jukebox is a great place to put that but if that is the only way to do it then I guess that it. TBH I can't even remember how that worked now and so I will leave it to you those that know and love the product and continue lobbying for a random playlist generator in the control point.

Good luck with it.

I don't remember a random playlist feature?
But anyway - I found it very useful for when my CP device was charging/off or wasn't to hand. So much of a faff (and time consuming) to start it up, then start Kazoo, etc.

I'm not too bothered by the number generation part. With a display, it was fairly straightforward to browse to an album. Trouble is, Linn has to cater for non-display DS's, so even somehow linking to an existing server won't do.

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