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Jukebox: how do you use it?
2017-12-17, 00:20
Post: #11
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
1. What are your reasons for using Jukebox?
I have set it up to be able to select and play music also when I don't have the tablet at hand.

2. Are you the primary user, or have you set it up for someone else to use?
I'm the primary user. Nobody else is using it.

3. How do you choose to order your printout? E.g. One album per page or long alphabetical list of albums?
My printout starts with an alphabetical list of albums followed by each album with cover and song list on a separate page.

4. How do you deal with additions to your collection after indexing and printing out your list?
I update the presets every time an new album is added.

5. Are the numbers albums are given important to you?
Not really as I normally choose an album by Artist and Album title.

6. What is frustrating about using Jukebox?
Actually Jukebox is a solution to a problem that many other manufactures like Denon, Marantz, T+A solve in a much better way. There solution look very much as if they have a media server installed in their media player. There is no effort to be spent on updating presets. They offer the same look and feel and functionality a media server would do. You can without additional Software access the music directly on the player choosing Artist, Album, Title, Composer etc.

7. What are Jukebox's missing features, how could it have been better?
As already stated under point 6. I don't want a new Jukebox, because it is an answer to a question nobody really asked for. Add a media player functionality directly into the DS/DSM without any need for additional Software and it would be just perfect. Make it possible that you can select directly on the DS/DSM Artist, Album, Title, Composer etc. and it would be just perfect".

Thomas

Electronics: Linn Akurate DSM | 2x Linn Akurate 2200 | T+A CD2000 AC | T+A P2000 AC | T+A A2000 AC | Marantz NR1604
Loudspeaker: I.Q Trend 3 | Elac 310 CE | Elac Sub 2030
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2017-12-17, 07:46
Post: #12
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
While I (sort of) agree with Thomas's view above, I don't think Jukebox "is an answer to a question nobody asked". I may be wrong, but my understanding is that other manufacturers use UPnP, not OpenHome, and they are able to implement an in-built control point in their players (not a separate media player). I think the way OpenHome works makes that difficult/impossible to do, hence Jukebox.

♫ ♫ Akurate EDSM | AEBox10 [on Custom Design iRAPs] | M6100+2100 | Majik 140 [on alu stands] | REL T5
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2017-12-17, 11:26
Post: #13
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
Timstee is right, Control Point would have been the right expression for what I named Media Player in my post above.

And my 'Jukebox is an answer to a question nobody asked' refers to this extra effort of using an separate software that needs to be maintained anytime you change your library. There are more elegant solution implemented in products of other manufacturers.

Thomas

Electronics: Linn Akurate DSM | 2x Linn Akurate 2200 | T+A CD2000 AC | T+A P2000 AC | T+A A2000 AC | Marantz NR1604
Loudspeaker: I.Q Trend 3 | Elac 310 CE | Elac Sub 2030
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2017-12-17, 13:14
Post: #14
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
(2017-12-17 11:26)at021971 Wrote:  Timstee is right, Control Point would have been the right expression for what I named Media Player in my post above.

And my 'Jukebox is an answer to a question nobody asked' refers to this extra effort of using an separate software that needs to be maintained anytime you change your library. There are more elegant solution implemented in products of other manufacturers.

Thomas

If it could be a simple configuration field in Konfig to point to an existing media server, and then be capable of browsing same in a way that can be done through a DS display and remote control, then I'd be all for it. I'm just not sure OpenHome would allow for it, and it doesn't help those with displayless DS's, such as Renews, Sneakys and Sekrits.

But - we live in hope that a solution will be found Smile

♫ ♫ Akurate EDSM | AEBox10 [on Custom Design iRAPs] | M6100+2100 | Majik 140 [on alu stands] | REL T5
♫ ♫ Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo

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2017-12-17, 13:55
Post: #15
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
(2017-12-17 07:46)timster Wrote:  ... my understanding is that other manufacturers use UPnP, not OpenHome, and they are able to implement an in-built control point in their players (not a separate media player). I think the way OpenHome works makes that difficult/impossible to do, hence Jukebox.

It's actually the other way round. Building a UPnP control point into a player as a means of getting round the limitations of the UPnP protocol is reasonably easy to implement in hardware, but compared with fixing the protocol (which is what OpenHome does), it's a kludge that all too often compromises the user experience. Why peer at a small screen that is usually much too far away to be comfortable and operated via a user-unfriendly set of buttons on the remote, when you could do the job with a touchscreen on a tablet?

It is perfectly possible to build a complete Openhome system (server, control point and renderer) in a single device; I've done it (for interest) on my computer. It's the ergonomics that would be problematic, just as they are with UPnP.

I'm coming to the view that what I actually want is not Jukebox. What I want is a capability to play saved playlists implemented as a Source or sub-Source in Konfig and DS(M) firmware. The concept goes like this.

Firstly, extend the Playlist options on the Sources tab of the configuration page to allow the user to specify where the music and the saved playlists are stored; it makes sense that they should be in a specified folder, use the standard .m3u format, and that both absolute an relative addressing would be allowed. A nice touch for people who get tangled up in network addresses would be the capability to specify the folder by drag and drop.

Next, specify buttons on the remote to select the saved playlist. Taking the REM20 as the example, a short press on the # button currently does nothing when the Playlist source is selected, so it could be used to enter and leave saved playlist selection, which would be effected by using either cursor or numeric keys. Pressing the # key after selection would load the selected playlist, while pressing the Playlist source button would cancel saved playlist selection and return to standard playlist mode. Once the saved playlist is loaded, the remote would be used as it is now.

Of course, this outline suggestion is far from complete. But it does at least show that a basic capability to load and use saved playlists could be implemented in the player without the need for a new piece of software. That would meet my (and I think also Briain's) use case. Anyway, it's something to ponder on.

David

Main system: [LP12* > Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10/1 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks.
*LP12: 1987 fluted plinth; Cirkus; Lingo 4; Trampolin; Kore; Basik Plus arm; K5 cartridge, Paratrace stylus.

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2017-12-17, 14:04
Post: #16
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
The # button currently does nothing because it was used by Jukebox to invoke it, just as you say, and it was implemented exactly as you say, but with all the scanned "playlists" the Kinsky Jukebox software loaded (a playlist being whatever type you configured Jukebox to scan). So you're actually asking for exactly what it used to do (with the addition of m3u scanning which I wholeheartedly agree with).

♫ ♫ Akurate EDSM | AEBox10 [on Custom Design iRAPs] | M6100+2100 | Majik 140 [on alu stands] | REL T5
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2017-12-17, 16:27
Post: #17
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
(2017-12-17 14:04)timster Wrote:  The # button currently does nothing because it was used by Jukebox to invoke it, just as you say, and it was implemented exactly as you say, but with all the scanned "playlists" the Kinsky Jukebox software loaded (a playlist being whatever type you configured Jukebox to scan).

Thanks. I read the Jukebox documentation, but that point had not sunk in.

(2017-12-17 14:04)timster Wrote:  So you're actually asking for exactly what it used to do (with the addition of m3u scanning which I wholeheartedly agree with).

Actually, I'm asking for less than before - no separate program, and scanning as such should not be necessary; just browsing to a playlist, and then loading it.

David

Main system: [LP12* > Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10/1 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks.
*LP12: 1987 fluted plinth; Cirkus; Lingo 4; Trampolin; Kore; Basik Plus arm; K5 cartridge, Paratrace stylus.

Second system: Kiko.
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2017-12-17, 16:35
Post: #18
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
(2017-12-17 16:27)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-12-17 14:04)timster Wrote:  The # button currently does nothing because it was used by Jukebox to invoke it, just as you say, and it was implemented exactly as you say, but with all the scanned "playlists" the Kinsky Jukebox software loaded (a playlist being whatever type you configured Jukebox to scan).

Thanks. I read the Jukebox documentation, but that point had not sunk in.

(2017-12-17 14:04)timster Wrote:  So you're actually asking for exactly what it used to do (with the addition of m3u scanning which I wholeheartedly agree with).

Actually, I'm asking for less than before - no separate program, and scanning as such should not be necessary; just browsing to a playlist, and then loading it.

David

OK. So what you're suggesting is to 'simply' point to a list of m3u files, and selecting the one you want? The DS needs an URL though, it can't just load a filepath to play. How would that be generated?

♫ ♫ Akurate EDSM | AEBox10 [on Custom Design iRAPs] | M6100+2100 | Majik 140 [on alu stands] | REL T5
♫ ♫ Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo

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2017-12-17, 16:43 (This post was last modified: 2017-12-17 16:48 by DavidHB.)
Post: #19
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
(2017-12-17 16:35)timster Wrote:  OK. So what you're suggesting is to 'simply' point to a list of m3u files, and selecting the one you want? The DS needs an URL though, it can't just load a filepath to play. How would that be generated?

Oh, heck. My Dalek seems to have found itself at the bottom of a staircase. Sad

So some sort of scan and index would be necessary, unless the DS(M) could be persuaded to work with UNC file paths. It is a computer, of a sort, after all. My proposal is obviously predicated on the idea that what is required would be within the storage capacity of the DS. Otherwise, any index would have to go on the storage device, which, again, is what Jukebox did, I think.

David

Main system: [LP12* > Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10/1 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks.
*LP12: 1987 fluted plinth; Cirkus; Lingo 4; Trampolin; Kore; Basik Plus arm; K5 cartridge, Paratrace stylus.

Second system: Kiko.
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2017-12-17, 16:46
Post: #20
RE: Jukebox: how do you use it?
(2017-12-17 16:43)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-12-17 16:35)timster Wrote:  OK. So what you're suggesting is to 'simply' point to a list of m3u files, and selecting the one you want? The DS needs an URL though, it can't just load a filepath to play. How would that be generated?

Oh, heck. My Dalek seems to have found itself at the bottom of a staircase. Sad

So some sort of scan and index would be necessary, unless the DS(M) could be persuaded to work with UNC file paths. It is a computer, of a sort, after all.

David

Maybe that's part of what Linn are thinking for the "new-improved" Jukebox. Or at least an option. It still doesn't help non-display DS owners though. They need numbers.

♫ ♫ Akurate EDSM | AEBox10 [on Custom Design iRAPs] | M6100+2100 | Majik 140 [on alu stands] | REL T5
♫ ♫ Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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