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Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
2018-05-30, 15:56
Post: #1
Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
Hi,

I had today the chance to have a long demonstration at Cymbiosis near Leicester with Peter Swain.
This was the best demo I ever had for any product - tons of knowledge, experience and products to show. These guys rock - it's possibly the Mekka for LP12 with 20 different LP12 ready for demo.

So what is my situation?
I have more or less a Majik LP12 with Akito arm and trampoline. As I also have Akudorik Exakt Katalyst system, my question is what to do next with my LP12? What kind of upgrades are the best to do towards a possible Urika II solution? What is voodoo and what is fact?

As Cymbiosis is exceptionally equipped with different LP12 that represent single upgrades, you can get for example a demo to hear a difference between non-Kore and Kore or even Keel.

Some people always ask here in the forum - and me too before today - what upgrades make more sense than others? How to achieve the best possible performance with a limited budget?
So here are my impressions:

non-Kore vs. Kore vs. Keel
This was demoed on a near-Majik LP12 with Lingo 3 PS. The jump in audio quality with Kore vs. non-Kore was unbelievable. So much more detail and response, that I couldn't believe it. With the standard chassis the music was good - as I knew it from home, but versus Kore everything sounded muddy in comparison.
Peter also showed me in the workshop the physical differences between basic chassis and Kore and that explained it to me why the chassis has such a huge impact.

Kore vs. Keel
Now, this may seem to be a real budget question as Keel is much more expensive. Again, the difference was easy to notice - again more depth, dynamic range, resolution. When I say here easy to notice, I mean it was really a meaningful increase in performance, not just subtle.

I can only say that possibly the chassis makes the biggest difference. I even think now about Keel, as it was that noticeable.

Lingo 4 vs. Radikal Akurate encl. vs. Radikal Klimax enclosure
Again same systems with different power supplies. Lingo makes again a big step up from Majik PS no question. But I was amazed how much better Radikal is. Immediately when the demo track started you could hear the higher resolution the much improved punch.
But what now sounds like magic - but believe me I heard it clearly - the Radikal in the Klimax enclosure was again by quite a margin better. I know the electronics are the same, but it was not just felt better, it was clearly better. What might be the explanation? Maybe it's the much better shielding in the Klimax enclosure. if you have the chance for a demo, do it - you will be surprised.

I also listened to Urika and it was a noticeable improvement vs. the standard phono stage, but not as big as what I heard from the chassis and power supply upgrades.
Interestingly also tonearm and cartridge didn't make such big differences in performance. It's still noticeable, but definitely not as big.

For me it's quite clear now: chassis and power supply are by far the most important upgrades and yes, Keel and Radikal are by quite a margin better than Kore and Lingo.

I hope this helps others to make decision or have their own demos.
Cymbiosis definitely rocks - never met such a knowledgable LINN person like Peter Swain.

Cheers, Maik.

Majik DSM, Akudorik Exakt with Dorik/Katalyst stands, QNAP T-253 Pro, LP12 on its way from Majik to Akurate level.
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2018-05-30, 16:38
Post: #2
RE: Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
Nice account of your visit Smile So, it's a Lingo 4 and Kore then? Krystal too?

My system: LP12/Keel/Radikal/Urika/Ekos 2/Akiva/Akurate DSM Katalyst/ Kudos /2 x Majik 6100-D/Akubarik (externally active). Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L/ QNAP 219P II / Grado PS500e.
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2018-05-30, 16:52
Post: #3
RE: Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
(2018-05-30 16:38)Tendaberry Wrote:  Nice account of your visit Smile So, it's a Lingo 4 and Kore then? Krystal too?

Hi, right now I feel that I will save more money and go directly to Keel and Radikal and possibly also Urika II. Only problem with Keel is, that for Akito the lift-lower device needs to be removed. Which is a small inconvenience and might do damage if not done with care.
Not sure about Krystal, as Peter meant that there are also other good and more affordable solutions out there that you can easily tune via Urika II in Konfig.

Majik DSM, Akudorik Exakt with Dorik/Katalyst stands, QNAP T-253 Pro, LP12 on its way from Majik to Akurate level.
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2018-05-30, 21:21
Post: #4
RE: Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
Very thorough report Maik. thank you. I happen to agree with you Cool

Cymbiosis LP12 Woodsong Wenge, Klimax Radikal, Keel/A, Khan, Tranquility, Urika/Chord SSA, Aro, sKale, Krystal - Sondek owner since 1982
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2018-05-30, 21:53
Post: #5
RE: Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
Just for interest, what arm and cartridge was used for the A/B comparisons?
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2018-05-31, 09:05
Post: #6
RE: Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
How does Peter Swain himself explain the "clearly audible" difference between the Radikal Akurate and Klimax enclosures, if the electronics are really the same?
I´m not convinced it´s only because of the better shielding of the Klimax enclosure.

Best regards from Germany

Klaus
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2018-05-31, 09:33 (This post was last modified: 2018-05-31 09:37 by antaron.)
Post: #7
RE: Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
(2018-05-30 21:53)Pangur Wrote:  Just for interest, what arm and cartridge was used for the A/B comparisons?

Hi,
in the beginning it was an Pro-Ject 9cc + Dynavector 10x5.
Later Akito + Dynavector 10x5.
In the end Ekos SE + Krystal.
But I have to say that fairly at the beginning Peter made an A/B between the same same deck one with Akito + Dyn. 10x5 and one with Ekos SE + Krystal.
The difference was small, but there. He wanted to show me, that power supply and chassis have a much bigger impact and that proved it to me.

Regards, Maik.

(2018-05-31 09:05)totustuus Wrote:  How does Peter Swain himself explain the "clearly audible" difference between the Radikal Akurate and Klimax enclosures, if the electronics are really the same?
I´m not convinced it´s only because of the better shielding of the Klimax enclosure.

Best regards from Germany

Klaus

Klaus, that is totally ok that you're not convinced, because I think it needs to be demonstrated. I heard it and I know what I heard. But it was not a scientific test, that was not the purpose. What sounds better is better, right?
The only explanation can be the better isolation of the case as the hardware is identical inside.
Try to find a dealer that can demonstrate it and maybe you will hear the same.
I wanted to share my experience, but of course everybody can challenge that.

Regards, Maik.

Majik DSM, Akudorik Exakt with Dorik/Katalyst stands, QNAP T-253 Pro, LP12 on its way from Majik to Akurate level.
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2018-05-31, 09:37
Post: #8
RE: Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
Hello Maik,

Thank you for your kind words and write up about your visit here and I'm pleased it's proving to be a talking point Smile

Kind regards,

Peter

Fettling LP12s since 1980 and member here since 2008
Tel 0333 200 4475
Email - peter@cymbiosis.com
Skype - peteratcymbiosis
Facebook - www.facebook.com/Cymbiosisaudio/
www.cymbiosis.com
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2018-05-31, 09:38
Post: #9
RE: Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
(2018-05-31 09:05)totustuus Wrote:  How does Peter Swain himself explain the "clearly audible" difference between the Radikal Akurate and Klimax enclosures, if the electronics are really the same? ... I´m not convinced it´s only because of the better shielding of the Klimax enclosure.

The Radikal is not my area of knowledge, but, if the general differences between Akurate and Klimax cases apply here, vibration and/or microphony control should also have a part to play. It was noticeable, for instance, that putting my KEDSM on felt pads made less of a difference than it did with my Akurate Exaktbox. Similar considerations could well apply here, given the level of accuracy at which the Radikal has to operate.

David

Main system: [LP12* > Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III CD player >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10/1 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks.
*LP12: 1987 fluted plinth; Cirkus; Lingo 4; Trampolin; Kore; Basik Plus arm; K5 cartridge, Paratrace stylus.

Second system: Kiko.
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2018-05-31, 09:41
Post: #10
RE: Sharing my demo experience about Lingo/Radikal, Kore/Keel, Urika
(2018-05-31 09:33)antaron Wrote:  
(2018-05-30 21:53)Pangur Wrote:  Just for interest, what arm and cartridge was used for the A/B comparisons?

Hi,
in the beginning it was an Pro-Ject 9cc + Dynavector 10x5.

Small correction. It was a full Majik spec LP12 with Adikt first and then we moved onto the Akitos with 10X5 for many of the other comparisons we made.

Fettling LP12s since 1980 and member here since 2008
Tel 0333 200 4475
Email - peter@cymbiosis.com
Skype - peteratcymbiosis
Facebook - www.facebook.com/Cymbiosisaudio/
www.cymbiosis.com
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