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Turntable set up and Lingo 4
2018-06-02, 14:54
Post: #1
Turntable set up and Lingo 4
A month or so ago in looking for a new cartridge I ended up with a Kore, Trampolin 2 and Krystal.
On a previous post I discussed the problems that I had with the way it was set up and had to go back to the dealer to get the armboard straight and the sound was much improved. Over the next few weeks I spent much time listening to records but not really enjoying the experience. The turntable didn't sound amazing any more. Some records sounded great but many did not. I was beginning to wonder if my record cleaning (moth record cleaning machine) had become too vigorous and I was damaging my discs, but uncleaned records were also not sounding great. So I booked in to see a well-known East Midlands dealer and took my lp12 there on Friday.
We set it up and listened to it and then listened to a similarly speced deck which compared to mine sounded great. Unsure what the issues were my deck was taken to pieces and rebuilt. During the process many minor things were found:

Bearing bolts not tight
Incorrect bolts and washers in places
P-clip not correctly attached
Very little oil in bearing
Old grommets which should have been replaced
Armboard not fully flush with plinth
Top-plate warped and rattling by over tightening

The upshot was when all of these things were corrected the deck was back to sounding superb.
Then we listened to deck with my lingo 1 and then an identical deck with the lingo 4. I was hoping to hear no real difference but instantly the difference between the two was obvious. How can a power supply be doing this? Everything sounded better, a lot better; there was nothing subtle about the improvement. The whole sound was tighter and more focused. It was as though a very worn stylus had been replaced by a brand new one. The instruments were distinct and life-like. The bass was deep and solid. I decided to get on fitted there and then. I'm now sat at home enjoying listening to music being watched by a small bright blue light.
One thing that I'm not sure bout is why and when the red LED brightens and dims. It seems to go bright and dim quite a bit and stay bright for a lot longer than it did on the lingo 1. Should one wait until the light goes dim before playing a record?
Anyway, the lingo 4 is an amazing upgrade and hopefully I'll never feel the need to upgrade anything else!
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2018-06-02, 15:31
Post: #2
RE: Turntable set up and Lingo 4
Just goes to show you that all LP12 dealers are not equal.

In the US, we just assume the local dealer (who is more than likely 400+ km away) doesn’t know what he’s doing and we do our own rebuilding and set up. Some of us have been doing it for over 30 years and can go head to head against all but the very best in the UK.

If I were in the UK, I’d be visiting Cymbiosis twice a year just for fun.

It’s about the music, not the gear. Just listen - or not.
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2018-06-02, 15:48
Post: #3
RE: Turntable set up and Lingo 4
(2018-06-02 14:54)Terry Crem Wrote:  A month or so ago in looking for a new cartridge I ended up with a Kore, Trampolin 2 and Krystal.
On a previous post I discussed the problems that I had with the way it was set up and had to go back to the dealer to get the armboard straight and the sound was much improved. Over the next few weeks I spent much time listening to records but not really enjoying the experience. The turntable didn't sound amazing any more. Some records sounded great but many did not. I was beginning to wonder if my record cleaning (moth record cleaning machine) had become too vigorous and I was damaging my discs, but uncleaned records were also not sounding great. So I booked in to see a well-known East Midlands dealer and took my lp12 there on Friday.
We set it up and listened to it and then listened to a similarly speced deck which compared to mine sounded great. Unsure what the issues were my deck was taken to pieces and rebuilt. During the process many minor things were found:

Bearing bolts not tight
Incorrect bolts and washers in places
P-clip not correctly attached
Very little oil in bearing
Old grommets which should have been replaced
Armboard not fully flush with plinth
Top-plate warped and rattling by over tightening

The upshot was when all of these things were corrected the deck was back to sounding superb.
Then we listened to deck with my lingo 1 and then an identical deck with the lingo 4. I was hoping to hear no real difference but instantly the difference between the two was obvious. How can a power supply be doing this? Everything sounded better, a lot better; there was nothing subtle about the improvement. The whole sound was tighter and more focused. It was as though a very worn stylus had been replaced by a brand new one. The instruments were distinct and life-like. The bass was deep and solid. I decided to get on fitted there and then. I'm now sat at home enjoying listening to music being watched by a small bright blue light.
One thing that I'm not sure bout is why and when the red LED brightens and dims. It seems to go bright and dim quite a bit and stay bright for a lot longer than it did on the lingo 1. Should one wait until the light goes dim before playing a record?
Anyway, the lingo 4 is an amazing upgrade and hopefully I'll never feel the need to upgrade anything else!

That’s an appalling tale of poor setup. I hope Linn are looking at a retraining exercise.

Anyway, congrats on the Lingo 4, it is marvellous and, IMHO, great value.

In terms of the bright LED; it should be bright initially, while speed stabilises. It should then brighten whenever the platter is slowed down, I sometimes find changing a record will do this, but not always. It will always take the same time for the LED to dim, around 20-25 seconds seems to be the norm, but I wouldn’t worry if it was higher than this. Once dimmed, it should stay dim until disturbed again. I did have an initial problem with mine, in that the LED would brighten for no reason. This was tracked to the inside of the platter having darkened with age and giving poor contrast with the marker, so the sensor was struggling to get a good reading. Polishing a small area and refitting a new marker cured this.

There’s no need to wait for the LED to dim before playing the record, I can’t detect any difference when it dims.

‘troll
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2018-06-02, 22:03
Post: #4
RE: Turntable set up and Lingo 4
Yes, I'm not sure whether to contact the original shop or not and what to say...
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2018-06-02, 23:15
Post: #5
RE: Turntable set up and Lingo 4
I’d be very surprised if your well known East Midlands dealer hasn’t beaten you to it.

‘troll
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2018-06-03, 10:32 (This post was last modified: 2018-06-03 10:33 by mickc.)
Post: #6
RE: Turntable set up and Lingo 4
I had problems some years back when I had the original Majik-cased Radikal. The turntable was continually running unevenly, with the LED brightening regularly.
Radikal was initially suspected but thanks to Colin Macey’s detective work it turned out to be the bearing in the end (it was quite old). New inner platter resolved the issue.

Mick

Klimax LP12 * KDS/3 * Solos/1/D * Akubarik/P
MDSM/3 * Majik 109
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2018-06-03, 12:10 (This post was last modified: 2018-06-03 20:34 by What You See and Hear.)
Post: #7
RE: Turntable set up and Lingo 4
(2018-06-03 10:32)mickc Wrote:  I had problems some years back when I had the original Majik-cased Radikal. The turntable was continually running unevenly, with the LED brightening regularly.
Radikal was initially suspected but thanks to Colin Macey’s detective work it turned out to be the bearing in the end (it was quite old). New inner platter resolved the issue.

Mick

Hi Mick

Thank's but an important correction. Not a new inner platter alone. I replaced both the Inner platter and the bearing housing with new and as you say some detective work was needed to give you a satisfactory solution. This is what an experienced dealer can do.

An observation. Glad the OP is sorted and sorry if this appears off topic but this is important.

There are flagged problems on other threads here where some people are having issues with either Lingo 4 and Cirlus bearings or both. Both the Lingo 4 and Cirkus kit have a very important message printed on the box from Linn. Unfortunately there are dealers who should know better ignoring this instruction and mail ordering items that clearly state on the label:

MUST BE FITTED BY AN AUTHORISED DEALER

A recent issue posted here with an inner platter not fitting an old outer is one example where an experienced dealer would know what's wrong and remedy. Been there and done that, and there are a number of reasons why this can happen and it can be possible to solve. However it's something that must be done in an authorised dealers physical domain as Linn would want and what a buyer needs and has paid for as proper service. This is something nearly all responsible dealers with any sense will do but there are some exceptions who are "nicely" ripping people off.

One UK dealer has sold more than a dozen Cirkus kits on ebay resulting in buyers not receiving the care Linn would insist on, with the very likely result of of a poor performing badly set up LP12. Another sells on their website on a "click and buy" basis and with both it's actually possible to buy one bearing part on it's own with the even worse result that will follow. Linn should take these dealers to task as they are lining their pockets while doing Linn and LP12 owners no favour, and Linn don't do themselves any favour turning a blind eye and should know better than to allow this to happen. A dealer who is greedy enough to mail order a Lingo 4 and found out should be more than taken to task.

Regards.

Colin Macey. WYSAH Beaconsfield.

www.whatyouseeandhear.com
www.wysah.com
01494 681300.
email colin@wysah.com
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2018-06-03, 15:33 (This post was last modified: 2018-06-03 15:43 by Catweazle.)
Post: #8
RE: Turntable set up and Lingo 4
(2018-06-03 12:10)What You See and Hear Wrote:  Linn should take these dealers to task as they are lining their pockets while doing Linn and LP12 owners no favour, and Linn don't do themselves any favour by turning a blind eye and should know better than to allow this to happen. A dealer who is greedy enough to mail order a Lingo 4 and found out should be more than taken to task.

As we know from history, turning a blind eye is only appropriate in the waters off Copenhagen Big Grin

But seriously, I observe two classes of Linnies on this forum. The lucky ones, who happen to live 'close enough' to one of the few determined Linn dealers, and all the rest.

I am lucky and have to take my LP 12 only for a good hours ride in my car, to give it into the capable hands of my trusted dealer. And in spite of the risks involved, this appears to me a much better choice, than going to the 'Linn and you name it' dealer less than 2 km away from my home. But what is about the less lucky ones, who don't have a dealer on their island, or continent?

From a commercial point of view Linn will hardly turn a blind eye on this unlucky rest. And I don't feel that they should do. Any better solution, than mail order and self service, is most wanted. But shipping an LP 12 back and forth to Scotland (or to a trusted dealer in a country nearer to the respective listening room) is probably not a viable option. A nice challenge to the product managers at Linn!

Of course I agree on the point, that Linn should be more selective on their dealer network, e.g. requiring regular training and certification of the service staff. The quality of dealers is clearly more important than the quantity to us Linnies. To quote what I learned on ships: "An ill-working navigation device is worse than no navigation device at all." The same is true for the LP 12!

Just my 2 cents.

Happy listening, CW
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2018-06-03, 15:49 (This post was last modified: 2018-06-03 16:01 by Glyn Ruck.)
Post: #9
RE: Turntable set up and Lingo 4
Many Linn owners around the world do not have the luxury of a dealer close by. Linn should provide service through/via all channels to market.

Anybody with half a brain would know to check bearing, spindle & motor, lubrication etc. if there was insufficient torque to provide constant speed. You don't need a PhD.

If Linn wishes to maintain the LP12 as a globally relevant product, parts & the service desk should be open to all via any channel. It's 2018 & supply models have changed to the home.
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2018-06-03, 15:53
Post: #10
RE: Turntable set up and Lingo 4
As a "less lucky" LP12 owner who lives in a Linn "desert", I require and am most thankful for the services of dealers who make parts available to me through the internet.

So far in 40+ years I have only needed oil and belts, but if I ever wear something out, the only way to keep my LP12 operating is to buy the part and install it myself. For those in my position, having part availability is a necessity.

I do find it odd that "take it to a dealer" is the first automated response of some, yet this post highlights the fact that "some" dealers give substandard service.
Fixing that problem is probably more pressing than dealers who make parts available to customers that require them to keep their LP12 running year after year.

Original 1978 Fluted Afromosia LP12, Ekos 2, Lyra Kleos SL and lots of other stuff from the 70's that still work fine.
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