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Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
2018-07-24, 15:41 (This post was last modified: 2018-07-24 15:43 by vincent.)
Post: #1
Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
I've just had a new Lyra Kleos SL fitted in my Ekos SE. The tracking force and anti-skate dials have always been inaccurate, but they now appear even further out (see photos).

Tracking force was set at 1.75g with an electronic gauge. Following Lyra’s detailed instructions, TF was visually checked to ensure that the cantilever was perpendicular to the front magnet carrier with the stylus lowered onto a record. Anti-skating force was adjusted so that the cantilever was central rather than pulling to the left or right (observing the stylus assembly from the front while playing).

I am confident that the tracking and bias settings have been made correctly. The cartridge sounds fantastic on the Ekos SE, with rock solid imaging and excellent tracking.

Anyone have similar experience with Ekos or other Linn arms?


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LP12 (Klimax Radikal/Urika II, Keel, Ekos SE, Lyra Kleos; TP Vulkan, Khan, TranQ, Skale); Klimax Exakt DSM, Kat Exakt Akubariks.
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2018-07-24, 15:51
Post: #2
RE: Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
(2018-07-24 15:41)vincent Wrote:  I've just had a new Lyra Kleos SL fitted in my Ekos SE. The tracking force and anti-skate dials have always been inaccurate, but they now appear even further out (see photos).

Tracking force was set at 1.75g with an electronic gauge. Following Lyra’s detailed instructions, TF was visually checked to ensure that the cantilever was perpendicular to the front magnet carrier with the stylus lowered onto a record. Anti-skating force was adjusted so that the cantilever was central rather than pulling to the left or right (observing the stylus assembly from the front while playing).

I am confident that the tracking and bias settings have been made correctly. The cartridge sounds fantastic on the Ekos SE, with rock solid imaging and excellent tracking.

Anyone have similar experience with Ekos or other Linn arms?

Actually, no...my Ekos 2 tracking force setting is spot on with a $300 electronic scale. Best approximate anti skate setting is a little bit higher than tracking force. So I'm happy.Big Grin

Original 1978 Fluted Afromosia LP12, Ekos 2, Lyra Kleos SL and lots of other stuff from the 70's that still work fine.
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2018-07-24, 18:20
Post: #3
RE: Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
The problem with the tracking force was discovered a while ago. You might want to read this thread on the forum that must not be named for more information on it and how to best deal with it:

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic...king+force

On the anti-skating, however, your setting is unusually low. In gerenal the Ekos SE/1 is pretty correct on the anti-skating setting. Older Ekos SE (except late production versions) and Ekos 1 and 2 generally need the anti-skating to be a bit higher on the dial than the actual tracking force, usually by about .3 grams.

LP12SE Movingui • KRadikal • Kandid • Urika • Kremlin • LS-NAS • KRDS • Lejonklou Sagatun Monos & Tundra Mono 2As • JBL 3677s & 4645C Sub • NOKTable • Harmoni Mimer/Tor Racks
AV: Pioneer BDP51 BluRay • Akurate Kontrol • 2 LK280 SPARK • 4 Isobarik DMS • 2 DQ1W

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Fine-tuning LP12s since 1978!
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2018-07-24, 19:11
Post: #4
RE: Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
(2018-07-24 15:41)vincent Wrote:  I've just had a new Lyra Kleos SL fitted in my Ekos SE. The tracking force and anti-skate dials have always been inaccurate, but they now appear even further out (see photos).

Tracking force was set at 1.75g with an electronic gauge. Following Lyra’s detailed instructions, TF was visually checked to ensure that the cantilever was perpendicular to the front magnet carrier with the stylus lowered onto a record. Anti-skating force was adjusted so that the cantilever was central rather than pulling to the left or right (observing the stylus assembly from the front while playing).

..if bias is correct by your visual method, then altering it slightly one way or other will reduce sound quality. (this should be very easily heard - and is therefore a 'check')
Measuring TF with a digital gauge does need some practice - the stylus needs to hit the same 'spot' each time. Decide on your TF then set your bias to suit. Change your TF then expect to change bias as well.

'84 fluted-Afro LP 12, Ekos, Keel, Lingo 1, Dynavector xx2, Naim 82 with Supercap, Naim Headline with HiCap, Sennheiser 650 'phones', Naim 180, Linn Tukans, Naim CD 3.
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2018-07-24, 19:37 (This post was last modified: 2018-07-24 21:28 by Record Playing Giraffe.)
Post: #5
RE: Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
(2018-07-24 15:41)vincent Wrote:  I've just had a new Lyra Kleos SL fitted in my Ekos SE. The tracking force and anti-skate dials have always been inaccurate, but they now appear even further out (see photos).

Tracking force was set at 1.75g with an electronic gauge. Following Lyra’s detailed instructions, TF was visually checked to ensure that the cantilever was perpendicular to the front magnet carrier with the stylus lowered onto a record. Anti-skating force was adjusted so that the cantilever was central rather than pulling to the left or right (observing the stylus assembly from the front while playing).

I am confident that the tracking and bias settings have been made correctly. The cartridge sounds fantastic on the Ekos SE, with rock solid imaging and excellent tracking.

Anyone have similar experience with Ekos or other Linn arms?

Are you sure that the arm was balanced properly before dialing in the tracking force? I don't think that the Kleos is a particularly lightweight cartridge, yet the counterweight seems very close to the pillar. Not sure that this is the issue, but it might be something to check, if you are concerned.

Also, I notice that you are using a Tiger Paw Skale counterweight; could the additional thickness of the counterweight impact the balance of the arm such that the dials are no longer accurate?
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2018-07-24, 23:49
Post: #6
RE: Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
The thickness of the counterweight should not change the accuracy of the dials. Linn also has a heavier counterweight that is thicker. As long as the arm is balanced the scale of the dial should remain the same, but these do tend to be a little bit off.

Since the Skale has adjustable mass it can be set to have an amount of mass that allows it to be placed close to the bearing housing, which is generally considered a better place to have the counterweight (although you should always listen to confirm things).

LP12SE Movingui • KRadikal • Kandid • Urika • Kremlin • LS-NAS • KRDS • Lejonklou Sagatun Monos & Tundra Mono 2As • JBL 3677s & 4645C Sub • NOKTable • Harmoni Mimer/Tor Racks
AV: Pioneer BDP51 BluRay • Akurate Kontrol • 2 LK280 SPARK • 4 Isobarik DMS • 2 DQ1W

www.nokturneaudio.com

Fine-tuning LP12s since 1978!
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2018-07-25, 06:09
Post: #7
RE: Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
(2018-07-24 23:49)ThomasOK Wrote:  The thickness of the counterweight should not change the accuracy of the dials. Linn also has a heavier counterweight that is thicker. As long as the arm is balanced the scale of the dial should remain the same, but these do tend to be a little bit off.

Since the Skale has adjustable mass it can be set to have an amount of mass that allows it to be placed close to the bearing housing, which is generally considered a better place to have the counterweight (although you should always listen to confirm things).

You're probably right that the thickness of the counterweight means little.

However, might the heavier weight itself throw off the accuracy of the tracking force dial? Since the dial/tracking force is spring-loaded, presumably, it is calibrated to the original (lighter) counterweight?
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2018-07-25, 07:49
Post: #8
RE: Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
(2018-07-25 06:09)Record Playing Giraffe Wrote:  
(2018-07-24 23:49)ThomasOK Wrote:  The thickness of the counterweight should not change the accuracy of the dials. Linn also has a heavier counterweight that is thicker. As long as the arm is balanced the scale of the dial should remain the same, but these do tend to be a little bit off.

Since the Skale has adjustable mass it can be set to have an amount of mass that allows it to be placed close to the bearing housing, which is generally considered a better place to have the counterweight (although you should always listen to confirm things).

You're probably right that the thickness of the counterweight means little.

However, might the heavier weight itself throw off the accuracy of the tracking force dial? Since the dial/tracking force is spring-loaded, presumably, it is calibrated to the original (lighter) counterweight?

Hi
Looking at the photo it looks like the c/w is not fitted correctly
It was explained to me that the top dimple must be dead level with the arm tube or the weight will not be hanging correctly
Place the small Allen key which is supplied gently on the top of the c/w and you can see if it is level or not very quickly
This will affect the TF
Try it and see how you get on
Regards
Tony
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2018-07-25, 10:33 (This post was last modified: 2018-07-25 10:40 by Tasebass.)
Post: #9
RE: Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
Must be one of the lucky ones..
My now 10 year old Ekos SE has never had this issue although I do add more bias as recommended by Peter Swain and final testing is done using the Hifi news test record.

I'm also using a Skale BTW..


   
   

Tase.

....might add though that I regularly check TF etc which I just so happened to do last weekend and one cause i do is "massage' the springs ( or whatevers in there ) of both the TF and bias by turning the adjusting dials full circle or end stop to end stop before final set up....

Linn stuff.....Klimax Radikal, Urika, Ekos SE, Kandid, Uphorik, 2 Keel's,2 LP12's......and a pair of DMS Isobariks...:
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2018-07-25, 11:21
Post: #10
RE: Accuracy of Ekos SE dials?
       
(2018-07-25 07:49)lambo Wrote:  
(2018-07-25 06:09)Record Playing Giraffe Wrote:  
(2018-07-24 23:49)ThomasOK Wrote:  The thickness of the counterweight should not change the accuracy of the dials. Linn also has a heavier counterweight that is thicker. As long as the arm is balanced the scale of the dial should remain the same, but these do tend to be a little bit off.

Since the Skale has adjustable mass it can be set to have an amount of mass that allows it to be placed close to the bearing housing, which is generally considered a better place to have the counterweight (although you should always listen to confirm things).

You're probably right that the thickness of the counterweight means little.

However, might the heavier weight itself throw off the accuracy of the tracking force dial? Since the dial/tracking force is spring-loaded, presumably, it is calibrated to the original (lighter) counterweight?

Hi
Looking at the photo it looks like the c/w is not fitted correctly
It was explained to me that the top dimple must be dead level with the arm tube or the weight will not be hanging correctly
Place the small Allen key which is supplied gently on the top of the c/w and you can see if it is level or not very quickly
This will affect the TF
Try it and see how you get on
Regards
Tony

Hi Tony

Definitely not this - dimple dead level - though I'm going to start again from scratch just to make sure.

   
   

LP12 (Klimax Radikal/Urika II, Keel, Ekos SE, Lyra Kleos; TP Vulkan, Khan, TranQ, Skale); Klimax Exakt DSM, Kat Exakt Akubariks.
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