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Didn’t think it was possible
2018-07-26, 00:40
Post: #1
Didn’t think it was possible
So I’ve been playing more vinyl than ever and tonight decided
To do a head to head comparison of Zeppelin 3 vs. Zeppelin 3. The difference was the one pressing was from 1979 and pressed in germany. The other was a “remastered, 180g reissue”. The song I used for this battle was Bron-yr-Stomp (forgive me if I spelled that wrong). Well I recorded the first 22 seconds of this song with my KK set to 65. I used my iPhone 7 to record the music. So I did this for the other album as well. Here is the fun part. My brother in law Always busts my chops saying he can’t hear most most upgrades I’ve done. So I sent him the clips as I did 2 other friends and everyone chose the 1979 album. Their responses ranged from being more enjoyable to listen to, another said easier to follow.. instruments and musicians were in better timing. Slowly this will be my mission to make believers of this wonderful deck. Also feels pretty good knowing I haven’t lost my hearing or ability to enjoy music as I should.
Thank you for taking time to read this.
Jon

LP12, Klimax Radikal, Urika, Keel, Ekos 2, Kandid, KK1/D, Lejonklou Tundra Mono 2 Tarandus, Pekin Tuner, 242s Mk2, RelB1 on top of Aurelex Sub Dude, Quadraspire Acrylic Reference Rack and wall mount, 2 dedicated circuits.
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2018-07-26, 07:50 (This post was last modified: 2018-07-26 08:28 by smokestack.)
Post: #2
RE: Didn’t think it was possible
Sadly, it's still the case that the original pressings [even the well played crackly ones] always sound better than the latest remasters.

There are a number of reasons for this. Some to do with the various analogue or digital source material & masters....
... but some to do with the skill & care [or lack of it !] in the mastering process .
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2018-07-26, 10:29 (This post was last modified: 2018-07-26 10:37 by charlie1.)
Post: #3
RE: Didn’t think it was possible
+1
I think modern reissues (taken from original analogue tapes) can sound good and enjoyable, but whenever I've compared to an earlier pressing, they've always come off poorer.

It's nice to have the option though, especially for the expensive rarer LPs, such as Nick Drake.

I recently bought the family-approved all-analogue reissue of 'Electric Ladyland' cos it's expensive here in the UK to get an original (~£100-£300). I thought it sounded really good, but when I found a good original copy in the US, at a much cheaper price than the UK (~£40), and compared them, then it was business as usual.

Have to say I am much less faddy about pressings now my deck is sounding so much better with Colin's service and Krystal in place etc. It's made any issue enjoyable and I don't feel the need to constantly get a first release of each LP.

Antnick, I'm still surprised these phone clips work from an evaluation perspective. I've found them really handy over the years, especially if the comparisons take time to switch from A to B.
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2018-08-01, 22:08 (This post was last modified: 2018-08-01 22:09 by Japtim.)
Post: #4
RE: Didn’t think it was possible
As soon as I see "remastered" or worse "digitally remastered" on the album cover I run a mile ....
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2018-08-02, 12:35 (This post was last modified: 2018-08-02 12:57 by smokestack.)
Post: #5
RE: Didn’t think it was possible
I've always preferred to use the term "Digitally Disastered "

Though to be fair, with improving digital technology, we now need to qualify our views a little.

If you have access to original or early generation analogue master tapes in good condition, then these should always result in the best remastering to vinyl.

These days it's less likely that the original tapes will be available or in good enough nick .

[There have also been examples of where the tapes do exist ...but the record company won't trust anybody within ten miles of them Big Grin]

There are also plenty of decent sounding vinyl albums which come from either original or later digital masters.

Digital today is so very much better than it was thirty [or even ten] years ago ,so why do so many new vinyl remasters sound rubbish ?

It's not the technology so much as the lack of skill and/or care in the process.

Mastering to vinyl had been a bit of a dying art I suspect , with few skilled and experienced old hands still around . It may take a while for folks to relearn how to do it properly !
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2018-08-02, 13:09
Post: #6
RE: Didn’t think it was possible
As an alternate view, I was very pleased with the Beatles Vinyl remasters issued a few years ago, which were remastered from PCM conversions of the original master tapes at Abbey Road.
Remastering doesn't always have to be bad!

LP12 (Valhalla & Cirkus), Ekos, Adikt, Lejonklou Gaio; Denon DCD-A100 SACD; Lumin A1 + L1
Akurate Kontrol/1, Majik 4100 x 2 (Dynamik), Linn Silvers, Aktiv Majik 140's (Upgraded Aluminium Bases), Majik 126
Headphone Rig: Chord Hugo TT, Musical Fidelity MX-HPA, Sennheiser HD800, Beyerdynamic T1.2
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2018-08-02, 14:18 (This post was last modified: 2018-08-02 14:57 by Glyn Ruck.)
Post: #7
RE: Didn’t think it was possible
Some digital remastering is superb & we can thank studios like Sony ME for digitising much of it's huge back catalogue before the analogue masters are shot.

Where Sony has realised there is a problem is that many of the mastering & pressing skills are being lost. At their recently reopened plants they are bringing all the old engineers that are still alive back to teach the new generation the tricks of the trade.

Some examples are that digital over-level does not distort gracefully like analogue so many early digital recordings are done a lower level to be safe & this had a negative effect on signal to noise ratio once converted back to analogue. Also, top mastering engineers would, as an example, manually drive the cutting lathe to control grove spacing in dynamic passages in the music & preserve dynamic range. The lazy just applied more compression leaving the final product sounding lackluster. I apologise if I'm not using the correct industry jargon.
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2018-08-02, 14:43 (This post was last modified: 2018-08-02 14:44 by kelly200269.)
Post: #8
RE: Didn’t think it was possible
(2018-08-02 14:18)Glyn Ruck Wrote:  Some digital remastering is superb & we can thank studios like Sony ME for digitising much of it's huge back catalogue before the analogue masters are shot.
I think that was the whole thrust of the DSD project a couple of decades ago, when Sony 'invented' DSD originally as a archive-quality digitization process to effectively 'copy' analogue master tapes before they degraded any more. And the SACD project sprung from that a few years later.
So many of the remasters we buy are actually remastered from DSD, or high-bit PCM copies of the original analogue tapes, because they're probably too knackered to use now.
Mobile Fidelity have issued many vinyl remasters, which must have been taken from digital copies of the original tape, and reviews such as those in 'Hi-Fi News' report that they can sound even better than the original vinyl issue.

LP12 (Valhalla & Cirkus), Ekos, Adikt, Lejonklou Gaio; Denon DCD-A100 SACD; Lumin A1 + L1
Akurate Kontrol/1, Majik 4100 x 2 (Dynamik), Linn Silvers, Aktiv Majik 140's (Upgraded Aluminium Bases), Majik 126
Headphone Rig: Chord Hugo TT, Musical Fidelity MX-HPA, Sennheiser HD800, Beyerdynamic T1.2
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2018-08-02, 15:06
Post: #9
RE: Didn’t think it was possible
Indeed! and as I have posted previously "A number of years back I was able to compare some analogue master tapes at 30ips vs Ed Meitner's modified Philips SACD1000 drive & DAC6 vs a number of top turntables including Linn & the Clearaudio Statement that I love other than the price. The Meitner SACD playback sounded closer to the master tape than any of the others."
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2018-08-02, 15:11
Post: #10
RE: Didn’t think it was possible
(2018-08-02 15:06)Glyn Ruck Wrote:  Indeed! and as I have posted previously "A number of years back I was able to compare some analogue master tapes at 30ips vs Ed Meitner's modified Philips SACD1000 drive & DAC6 vs a number of top turntables including Linn & the Clearaudio Statement that I love other than the price. The Meitner SACD playback sounded closer to the master tape than any of the others."
Maybe it's time for an 'SACD comeback', like what has happened with vinyl? Cool
Ken Kessler's column in 'Hi-Fi News' was an interesting read this month, and alluded to something along those lines. Personally, I think SACD is (was?) an absolutely superb format.

LP12 (Valhalla & Cirkus), Ekos, Adikt, Lejonklou Gaio; Denon DCD-A100 SACD; Lumin A1 + L1
Akurate Kontrol/1, Majik 4100 x 2 (Dynamik), Linn Silvers, Aktiv Majik 140's (Upgraded Aluminium Bases), Majik 126
Headphone Rig: Chord Hugo TT, Musical Fidelity MX-HPA, Sennheiser HD800, Beyerdynamic T1.2
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