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Any body seen this arm
2018-07-29, 11:26
Post: #1
Any body seen this arm
Anybody heard this at all?

[Image: AK_1_Arm.jpg]


The AK 1 from Funk

Always interested in listening to engineers ideas, I went to a talk (at my local HiFi show) by the designer Arthur Khoubesserian. He was at Pink Triangle and now is Funk Firm.

Interesting talk, but what stood out was how the anti Linn lobby is so vitriolic. In running down the LP12 the comment I remember from the Dealer (funnily enough from the original business I bought my first LP12 from) was "They say a particular turntable plays tunes, it's just it plays the wrong tunes"

I wonder if the LP12 is the new Marmite. Tongue

Just for the record, I hate Marmite and love my LP12

Tonight when I chase the dragon; The water will change to cherry wine; And the silver will turn to gold; Time out of mind.
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2018-07-29, 11:52
Post: #2
RE: Any body seen this arm
Take a look at pfm - every time there's a Linn or LP12 thread the haters step in. "Ivor stole that from Hamish"!

Mick

Klimax LP12 * KDS/3 * Solos/1/D * Akubarik/P
MDSM/3 * Majik 109
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2018-07-29, 12:52
Post: #3
RE: Any body seen this arm
(2018-07-29 11:52)mickc Wrote:  Take a look at pfm - every time there's a Linn or LP12 thread the haters step in. "Ivor stole that from Hamish"!

Mick

Big Grin

Nobody got £24,000 to try it? Tongue

Tonight when I chase the dragon; The water will change to cherry wine; And the silver will turn to gold; Time out of mind.
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2018-07-29, 13:03
Post: #4
RE: Any body seen this arm
Does anyone agree that it looks a little like the Starship Enterpise docked to something?

'The grocer told me what you do with bread'
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2018-07-29, 13:11
Post: #5
RE: Any body seen this arm
(2018-07-29 13:03)John Lewis Wrote:  Does anyone agree that it looks a little like the Starship Enterpise docked to something?

Hah! Yes!

£24k though ?

Wonder if it’s actually been made or if it’s just a 3D model at the moment. Tried to get on their website but it didn’t appear to be responding. Maybe it’s crashed due to all those folk ordering it...

Klimax LP12 * KDS/3 * Solos/1/D * Akubarik/P
MDSM/3 * Majik 109
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2018-07-29, 13:13 (This post was last modified: 2018-07-29 13:22 by DavidHB.)
Post: #6
RE: Any body seen this arm
(2018-07-29 11:26)grimreaper46 Wrote:  I wonder if the LP12 is the new Marmite. Tongue

Well, I love Marmite and my LP12. But I actually don't think the LP12 is a Marmite thing at all. It's just that 45 years of relative success have generated a degree of irrational dislike along the way. I'm not one for going into the history - all those ships have sailed long ago - but, as I am discovering with my LP12, play a decent disk to folk who neither know nor care about the background and they like what they hear.

I've just had a musician friend round; he needed some items I could provide from my 'bits box'. While I was looking out those things for him, I played him a couple of movements from the Bruno Walter recording of Mozart's 'Linz' symphony. His comment was that it was easy to understand why there was a revival of interest in the LP when it could be played so enjoyably. I can only conclude that my LP12 was playing the tune as well for him as it does for me.

And as for Mr. Khoubesserian's tonearm, I'm sorry but it suggests to me that somebody taught the ghost of Heath Robinson how to use a 3D printer. Call it irrational dislike if you will, but I wouldn't be prepared to bet that that arm will still be around in 45 years' time.

David

Main system: [LP12* > Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III CD player >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10/1 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks.
*LP12: 1987 fluted plinth; Cirkus; Lingo 4; Trampolin; Kore; Basik Plus arm; K5 cartridge, Paratrace stylus.

Second system: Kiko.
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2018-07-29, 13:57
Post: #7
RE: Any body seen this arm
(2018-07-29 11:26)grimreaper46 Wrote:  I wonder if the LP12 is the new Marmite. Tongue

I had to look up Marmite. I’ve never seen it. It’s not even stocked in our “international foods” aisle.

It appears to be a strong flavored edible paste, very salty, and made from brewer’s yeast. The word has evidentially entered the British lexicon as short hand to suggest that you’ll either love it or hate it. So ... in answer to the OPs question, there is no doubt that the Linn company is genuinely “like Marmite,” and this has been true since the early days.

The LP12 by itself, removed from the Linn context, is a wonderful turntable. And Linn have made it unique with their “open architecture” approach. So something that is “like Marmite” must have some underlying good values.

I used to not understand the haters. I understand them now. I would not be one though. Life is too short.

Being a pragmatic guy, I won’t turn my back on my LP12s until something auditions here that is clearly better. So far, the things I’ve brought in hold their own, winning in some areas but losing in others. The bad news for me is that I’m getting a silly sized collection of high end turntables, and $2k+ LOMC cartridges to feed them.

Worse things could happen.

As for whether or not anyone, including the renderer, has ever heard that arm, my money’s on “NO!”

It’s about the music, not the gear. Just listen - or not.
Alright ... maybe it does seem to be about the gear. Sigh ...
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2018-07-29, 14:05
Post: #8
RE: Any body seen this arm
Very sorry. I should not make assumptions:

For Information:

Marmite

Tonight when I chase the dragon; The water will change to cherry wine; And the silver will turn to gold; Time out of mind.
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2018-07-29, 14:20
Post: #9
RE: Any body seen this arm
(2018-07-29 13:13)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2018-07-29 11:26)grimreaper46 Wrote:  I wonder if the LP12 is the new Marmite. Tongue

Well, I love Marmite and my LP12. But I actually don't think the LP12 is a Marmite thing at all. It's just that 45 years of relative success have generated a degree of irrational dislike along the way. I'm not one for going into the history - all those ships have sailed long ago - but, as I am discovering with my LP12, play a decent disk to folk who neither know nor care about the background and they like what they hear.

I've just had a musician friend round; he needed some items I could provide from my 'bits box'. While I was looking out those things for him, I played him a couple of movements from the Bruno Walter recording of Mozart's 'Linz' symphony. His comment was that it was easy to understand why there was a revival of interest in the LP when it could be played so enjoyably. I can only conclude that my LP12 was playing the tune as well for him as it does for me.

And as for Mr. Khoubesserian's tonearm, I'm sorry but it suggests to me that somebody taught the ghost of Heath Robinson how to use a 3D printer. Call it irrational dislike if you will, but I wouldn't be prepared to bet that that arm will still be around in 45 years' time.

David

Ar. Actually I think LP12 is an exact "Marmite" thing.

The reason I say that is I was shot down when I suggested that "Best was best" by definition. "No, no" I was told what was best for one might not be best for someone else. I tried to argue that personal preference was a completely different thing. You may prefer something that is actually inferior. That doesn't alter what is best.

Now discussions have taken place for years about which is the best Turntable. I prefer the LP12 to any TT I have heard. Though my experience with other TT's is limited and hence I may be doing myself an injustice.

Hence my Marmite reference was that some people believe the LP12 is "best" other consider it highly flawed and beaten by others at a fundamental level. That is some people would say Marmite is an "essential" food product (my son for example) others would throw it in the bin straight away. Somewhat like the relation some have with the LP12 (though probably most are somewhat in the middle).

Long live controversy. Big Grin

Tonight when I chase the dragon; The water will change to cherry wine; And the silver will turn to gold; Time out of mind.
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2018-07-29, 15:38 (This post was last modified: 2018-07-29 15:39 by Peer Gynt.)
Post: #10
RE: Any body seen this arm
(2018-07-29 14:20)grimreaper46 Wrote:  The reason I say that is I was shot down when I suggested that "Best was best" by definition. "No, no" I was told what was best for one might not be best for someone else. I tried to argue that personal preference was a completely different thing. You may prefer something that is actually inferior. That doesn't alter what is best.

Now discussions have taken place for years about which is the best Turntable. I prefer the LP12 to any TT I have heard. Though my experience with other TT's is limited and hence I may be doing myself an injustice.

Best implies value judgments and ordering. It extends to every aspect of life.

In decision theory, one might choose any number of rational choice algorithms. One that makes many people happy is “satisficing.” You seek a solution that satisfies you. DavidHB did this recently, and based on his values and constraints, he found a local optimum.

If we start searching for global optima, that is find the very best of the best, we have to agree on our objective function. In all of human history, there are no precedents for perfect agreement. Even when fire and the wheel were harnessed, there were folks who disagreed that they were better than what came before.

If humans are anything, it is not harmonious.

It’s about the music, not the gear. Just listen - or not.
Alright ... maybe it does seem to be about the gear. Sigh ...
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